Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Sword Identification Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Gordon Wilson




Location: Burlington, Ontario
Joined: 01 Aug 2016

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Sword Identification         Reply with quote

Hello all!
I have been tasked to identify the following two swords. My in-laws have an elderly woman leaving for a senior's residence and is clearing out some of her late husbands articles. He has acquired these swords about 25 years ago and I am supposed to i.d. them and perhaps come up with a price value, and perhaps sell them for her.

Sword #1 is, I believe, an early 1800's Scottish Sergeant's sword, with scabbard.
Sword #2 I'm guessing is British and from same period, no scabbard.

Any help from members would be much appreciated.

Cheers!
Gord



 Attachment: 127.34 KB
2 Swords.jpg
These are the two. Blades are 32" long. Minor damage and pitting, etc.

 Attachment: 201.61 KB
Sword B1.jpg
Claymore basket. NCO's 1800?

 Attachment: 186.82 KB
Sword A1.jpg
British Infantry NCO's sword?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Gordon Wilson




Location: Burlington, Ontario
Joined: 01 Aug 2016

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 2:21 pm    Post subject: A few more pics         Reply with quote

Got a few more here to help. Note that there are no markings on any of these pieces.

Gord



 Attachment: 133.17 KB
Sword B3.jpg
Split in claymore scabbard

 Attachment: 99.98 KB
Sword B4.jpg
Blade repair (?) to claymore

 Attachment: 130.44 KB
SwordB 2.jpg
Tip of scabbard.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,822

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Welcome aboard Gordon

The steel mounted sword is a British 1788 pattern heavy cavalry sword. I am sure some of the basket cases here can confirm the sergeants sword.

You may want to post these up at http://www.swordforum.com/forums/forumdisplay...word-Forum

Cheers

GC
View user's profile Send private message
Gordon Wilson




Location: Burlington, Ontario
Joined: 01 Aug 2016

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 4:03 pm    Post subject: Sword Identification         Reply with quote

Thanks Glen.
Would you or anyone else know the approximate value of these? I do not want to put them on ebay and go through all that hassle.

Thanks again;
Gord
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 774

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The basket hilt is a 1798 Pattern Highland Officer's claymore. One was recently auctioned at Christie's for $2,222 (it looks to be in better shape than yours, at least the basket is): http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/arms-armor...tails.aspx

I'm not an expert, but $2000 seems a reasonable ball park figure....

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,822

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The 1788 is a fairly uncommon sword on the market. I have seen one with scabbard listed close to $3000 but have also seen them sell without a scabbartd in the lower 4 figure range.. The high price was was listed a couple of years ago by Michael D Long ltd of England.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/British-1788-Heavy-Ca...743628736?

Some will say a scabbard is half the worth, so you might ballpark street value without a scabbard somewhere under $2000

Past sales are really the best judge but these turn up infrequently. IIRC, the last I saw sell on Eabay went at about $1200 but I don't have the old listing handy.

Cheers

GC
View user's profile Send private message
Gordon Wilson




Location: Burlington, Ontario
Joined: 01 Aug 2016

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2016 7:32 am    Post subject: Sword Identification         Reply with quote

Thanks everyone. Nice to hear from folks who know!

Cheers!
Gord
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional



Location: Thailand
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 3:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Got to jump in - that steel hilted sword is NOT a 1788 pattern heavy cavalry sword; it is pre-1788.

The 1788 pattern has 3 side branches on both sides of the slotted guard. The length from base of grip to top of the pommel is about 7.5 inches. The 1788 pattern blade is 1 1/2" wide, and 3/8" thick at the forte. There are a lot of shortened blades out there, but the specified length for the 1788 was 38". Standard fullering was one wide fuller, but you can find them with the narrow and wide combination.

I have in my collection both a 1788 pattern sword and the type pictured in this thread: the 1788 makes the pre 1788 look like a toothpick (sort of...).

It has been pretty common over the last decade or so for dealers to claim that their pre-1788s are actually 1788 patterns. Why? One reason is that a true 1788 is a very rare bird; the pre 1788s are much more common, and therefore don't bring as much money in. Another reason is because of a partial reading of Richard Dellar's book where he discusses whether or not these pre-1788s are actually 1788s. However, in the conclusion of the discussion (which most people seem not to read or refer to) he maintains that the true 1788 pattern has the dimensions that I mention two paragraphs above. Robson's book also concurs with this.

--ElJay
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional



Location: Thailand
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 434

PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 4:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Documentation for my post above.

First, a brief discussion on SFI over the identification of an English cavalry sword.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...-P-1788-HC

Second, also an SFI thread, in which Richard Dellar has some pertinent observations.
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...alry-Sword

Third, an article by Richard Dellar which discusses 1788 pattern swords.
www.swordsandpistols.co.uk/research/.../fd4b5...7badd2.pdf

Hope all the links work! --ElJay
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,822

PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, the article from Richard sums it up pretty well.. I guess its kind of like distinguishing between proto 1796 infantry swords and the examples that appeared before (except in numbers).

Thanks for checking in you guys.

Cheers

GC
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Sword Identification
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum