Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Were Hauberks With Built-In Chausses Really A Thing? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Were Hauberks With Built-In Chausses Really A Thing?         Reply with quote

I'm not sure "chausses" is good term for it but the only alternative description I can think of would be "jumpsuit." Anyway, what's the consensus on historical artwork that appears to show hauberks that end in short leggings such as those seen in the Bayeux Tapestry? Was that an artistic convention or is that really how they made them? Some scenes in the Tapestry that show the dead being stripped of their armor would seem to be impossible if they were really made with "chausses" but OTOH those same images depict the slain warriors as being naked under their armor which I'm pretty sure is a metaphor for being "stripped bare."
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 5:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Those are not chausses, those are just long hauberks with split in the middle for riding.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That seems the most likely answer to me too but there are many other similar images that seem to show mail "trunks" attached the hauberk, like the one below. I might finally try taking on my hauberk project soon so I wanted to be sure I'll be okay with a simple split.


 Attachment: 51.33 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This image looks funky. It doesn't look like split, but I don't believe it's with attached chausses either. Artist probably just wanted to represent mail as well fitting to the person. Slit is probably only in the front.
View user's profile Send private message
Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alternately, the flaps might be tied or otherwise fixed around the thighs like you can do on some modern dusters, to stop them from flopping about, especially when moving on foot.
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 1:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mikko Kuusirati wrote:
Alternately, the flaps might be tied or otherwise fixed around the thighs like you can do on some modern dusters, to stop them from flopping about, especially when moving on foot.


I would concur with this, it seems a fairly obvious solution. It would be no problem at all to run a bit of string or lacing through a few links of maille and just bind it together after dismounting.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That thought occurred to me as well. It is a possible explanation for the apparently contradictory images in the Bayeux Tapestry and it seems like a conceptual continuation of the old saying about "gird your loins."
View user's profile Send private message
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William the Breton's description of the battle Bouvines contains a description of an armor where it proved to be impossible to stab someone in the groin. I read it a long time ago so I might be off but it's worth checking out if you want to find a textual reference to that sort of armor.
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Mon 01 Aug, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philippide, line 1754, Battle of Bouvines in 1214

Quote:
Ipsum paecedens Cornutus nomine fortis
Corpore, mortifero horribat qui dextra cutello.
Hic ocreis ubi si jungit lorica, volebat
Immisso comiti vitalia rumpere ferro.
Sed thorax ocreis consuta patere cutello
Indissuta negans Cornuti vota fefellit.
Circuit, atque alias se garcio vertit ad artes.
Cornibus amotis balenae et casside tota
Ingenti faciem nudatam vulnere signal


Quote:
And as he was slow in getting up from the ground, waiting in vain for help and still hoping to escape, a boy [a commoner] named Cornut, one of the servants of the Elect of Senlis, and walking ahead of the latter, a man strong in body, arrives holding a deadly knife in his right hand. He wanted to cut the count's noble parts by plunging the knife in at the place where the body armor is joined to the leggings, but the armor sowed [sic] into the leggings will not separate and open up to the knife, and thus Cornut's hopes are thwarted. However, he circles the count and looks for other ways to reach his goal. Pushing the two whalebones out of the way and soon pulling off the whole of his helmet, he inflicts a large wound upon his unprotected face.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue 02 Aug, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, thanks guys!
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Were Hauberks With Built-In Chausses Really A Thing?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum