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Ronald M




Location: vancouver bc canada
Joined: 06 Oct 2015

Posts: 65

PostPosted: Mon 23 May, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: top 2 inches from the point cant cut paper         Reply with quote

So the godelot sword by wulflund sharpened by koa is decently sharp until about 2 inches from the tip

this confuses me, should it be like this?

smiley face 123? no? lol yeah well im here cause i like...swords and weapons and stuff obv
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 23 May, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try cutting someone with it. You'll find it plenty sharp.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Jonathan Blair




Location: Hanover, PA
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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Posts: 479

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What are you trying to cut with it? KoA lists a sharpness rating which gives how they classify how sharp a weapon is. From their website http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=MSW153S_DBR# (click on the hyperlink "Slightly Sharpened"):
Quote:
Blunt - A blunt edge is specifically thick, usually made for stage or sport combat. In many case the tip will be rounded as well.
Unsharpened - Unsharpened edges will be thinner than blunt, but will not offer any cutting ability. They will typically taper towards and edge, but then stop short.
Slightly sharp - A slightly sharp blade is essentially unsharpened but they have clearly made an “attempt” at sharpening. The grind will fall short and leaves a very thin flat edge.
Moderately sharp - Moderately sharp is like a knife that had an edge but needs to be touched up. It looks like it should be sharp, but will not really cut without great force. Typically these will have the correct edge geometry, so finishing the edge is not very difficult.
Sharp - Sharp blades are “sword sharp”. Meaning that they lack the ability to cut without some force. These edges will cut or cleave when swung, but there is little fear of cutting yourself on the blade otherwise. This is about the level many historic European swords would have been at. Offering a durable edge that would not suffer as much from shield or armor hits.
Very sharp - Very sharp edges are the type that will cut you if you are not careful. This is still not quite paper cutting sharp but is usually pretty close. This is best for test cutting. If you add our sharpening service to an item, this will be the result on most blade types. This is a typical level for katana.
Razor sharp - Razor sharp is not a term we use, so you will not find any blades we carry listed as such. This is the type of edge that would be needed to cut paper and shave hair. Some people incorrectly expect anything “sharp” to be at this level, but that is not realistic. Almost no production swords will ever ship this sharp, despite other places using the term indiscriminately. Truthfully, this is too sharp for a sword and will result in a very thin, fragile edge that will chip, roll and dull itself quickly.

Depending on the blade type and geometry, the tip and last two inches may not have taken as sharp an edge as the rest of the blade without significant alteration to the blade. That is not to say that it is not sharp enough to cut. Sharpness is also subjective as they also state in their website http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=MSW153S_DBR# (click on the big question mark next to "Pommel: Peened").
Quote:
Please note, all values should be considered approximates. Many of these swords are made by hand, so the specs can vary. The measurements we provide were taken here of a specific sword. Also, the edge designations are subjective, don't email us to tell us a sword we call "Very Sharp" was only "Moderately Sharp" to you, etc. As with other specs this can vary a bit as well from sword to sword.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
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Lukas MG
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Posts: 316

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Frankly, I think a sword should "at least" slice paper cleanly. Being able to shave doesn't hurt. That has nothing necessarily to do with edge durability. Yes, a finer edge will bite more aggressively and also be damaged more easily but you can have a plenty durable edge (let's say 20-25°) either very sharp or quite dull, mainly a matter of polish.

Those who believe that stuff KoA writes about "sword sharp" should try cutting some layers of linen... they will find their swords will just bounce off.

Without seeing the sword in person I can only speculate but it sounds like the guy sharpening it messed up. I don't put too much trust in sword sharpening services like these offered my KoA, MRL, etc.
Of the top of my head, I can only think of one sensible reason why a sword could be less sharp at the tip: on a very pointy, thrusting oriented sword, the bevels get so steep at the tip that actual cutting is hardly possible. But usually, if there is at all a variation in sharpness, it should get sharper towards the tip, not the other way around.

Custom sword maker:

http://www.lukasmaestlegoer.com
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

Posts: 494

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lukas MG wrote:
Frankly, I think a sword should "at least" slice paper cleanly. Being able to shave doesn't hurt. That has nothing necessarily to do with edge durability. Yes, a finer edge will bite more aggressively and also be damaged more easily but you can have a plenty durable edge (let's say 20-25°) either very sharp or quite dull, mainly a matter of polish.

Those who believe that stuff KoA writes about "sword sharp" should try cutting some layers of linen... they will find their swords will just bounce off.

Without seeing the sword in person I can only speculate but it sounds like the guy sharpening it messed up. I don't put too much trust in sword sharpening services like these offered my KoA, MRL, etc.
Of the top of my head, I can only think of one sensible reason why a sword could be less sharp at the tip: on a very pointy, thrusting oriented sword, the bevels get so steep at the tip that actual cutting is hardly possible. But usually, if there is at all a variation in sharpness, it should get sharper towards the tip, not the other way around.

Also, in many combat manuals, we see place and draw cutting, if Medieval European swords where only sharp enough to cutt with a swing, these technique wouldn't be possible.
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T. Kew




Location: Cambridge, UK
Joined: 21 Apr 2012

Posts: 174

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philip Dyer wrote:

Also, in many combat manuals, we see place and draw cutting, if Medieval European swords where only sharp enough to cutt with a swing, these technique wouldn't be possible.


I can't think of one slicing technique from a medieval fencing manual which is expected to do major cutting damage.

Throughout the Liechtenauer material, slices are delivered to wrists or neck, and always to control the opponent's structure and weapon while incidentally causing some injury. They aren't 'draw cuts' that pull the blade along an opponent to lay them open.

Instructor and scholar, Cambridge HEMA
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

Posts: 494

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Meaning that they lack the ability to cut without some force. On Sword sharp, it says that edge lacks the ability to cut without some force, it doesn't say lack the ability to cut clothing without some force, so my point still stands.
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Ronald M




Location: vancouver bc canada
Joined: 06 Oct 2015

Posts: 65

PostPosted: Tue 24 May, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Blair wrote:
What are you trying to cut with it? KoA lists a sharpness rating which gives how they classify how sharp a weapon is. From their website http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=MSW153S_DBR# (click on the hyperlink "Slightly Sharpened"):
Quote:
Blunt - A blunt edge is specifically thick, usually made for stage or sport combat. In many case the tip will be rounded as well.
Unsharpened - Unsharpened edges will be thinner than blunt, but will not offer any cutting ability. They will typically taper towards and edge, but then stop short.
Slightly sharp - A slightly sharp blade is essentially unsharpened but they have clearly made an “attempt” at sharpening. The grind will fall short and leaves a very thin flat edge.
Moderately sharp - Moderately sharp is like a knife that had an edge but needs to be touched up. It looks like it should be sharp, but will not really cut without great force. Typically these will have the correct edge geometry, so finishing the edge is not very difficult.
Sharp - Sharp blades are “sword sharp”. Meaning that they lack the ability to cut without some force. These edges will cut or cleave when swung, but there is little fear of cutting yourself on the blade otherwise. This is about the level many historic European swords would have been at. Offering a durable edge that would not suffer as much from shield or armor hits.
Very sharp - Very sharp edges are the type that will cut you if you are not careful. This is still not quite paper cutting sharp but is usually pretty close. This is best for test cutting. If you add our sharpening service to an item, this will be the result on most blade types. This is a typical level for katana.
Razor sharp - Razor sharp is not a term we use, so you will not find any blades we carry listed as such. This is the type of edge that would be needed to cut paper and shave hair. Some people incorrectly expect anything “sharp” to be at this level, but that is not realistic. Almost no production swords will ever ship this sharp, despite other places using the term indiscriminately. Truthfully, this is too sharp for a sword and will result in a very thin, fragile edge that will chip, roll and dull itself quickly.

Depending on the blade type and geometry, the tip and last two inches may not have taken as sharp an edge as the rest of the blade without significant alteration to the blade. That is not to say that it is not sharp enough to cut. Sharpness is also subjective as they also state in their website http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=MSW153S_DBR# (click on the big question mark next to "Pommel: Peened").
Quote:
Please note, all values should be considered approximates. Many of these swords are made by hand, so the specs can vary. The measurements we provide were taken here of a specific sword. Also, the edge designations are subjective, don't email us to tell us a sword we call "Very Sharp" was only "Moderately Sharp" to you, etc. As with other specs this can vary a bit as well from sword to sword.


thing is i got it sharpened by kult of athena which is why i expected it to be sharp along the entire length of that blade not just the lower bits of the blade

smiley face 123? no? lol yeah well im here cause i like...swords and weapons and stuff obv
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