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R. Charboneau




Location: United States
Joined: 06 Dec 2015

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb, 2016 6:59 pm    Post subject: 1350 - 1360 English Harness help         Reply with quote

Hey everyone,
I have recently joined the SCA and am working on a harness. Will be looking to participate in HMB as well in the near future so this harness will serve both roles (add and subtract some items depending on what sport I am participating in). My persona is 1350-1360 northern English. As far as wealth/class etc. I have no idea, (I guess I will go with whatever my harness would suggest my status is.) Im open to any suggestions.

As far as the harness is concerned....I know this screams GERMAN!
BTW under the surcoat will be a rounded COP.The waist wont be as pronounced, used an effigy from 1379 to trace over on photoshop
Yes I know, padded aventail and no mail....I can only make so many things Wink
Yep, no plaque belt, on the to do list along with the chainmail

Has anyone seen leg/arm harnesses similar to these in effigies / period artwork for an Englishman?)
I have looked at Effigies & Brasses, as well as Armor in art, and Manuscript Mini's Pinterest etc. Does anyone have any evidence to legitimize this harness (or one similar to it) being worn by someone in England during this period.

Now on to the helm.....
I understand klappvisor + shovel face (for a lack of a better term) style bascinets were worn in other countries besides Germany but, from what I understand (like the splinted arm/leg harness) this is more the exception than the rule. I would go with a H.S. visor but I do not have the skill set to produce one.

I am open to the idea of a great helm as opposed to a visored bascinet.

Side note* has anyone ever seen a historical shovel face visor mounted on a bascinet with side hinges as opposed to a single middle hinge?


Thanks for all the help in advance. Big fan of this site



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Timm Radt




Location: Germany
Joined: 12 Sep 2011

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

for English effigies / transitional armour I can recommend this collection of images:

http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20century%20armour.htm

...in my eyes still one of the best overviews.

...and one point: A klappvisor-bascinet wit a central hinge really does look German / Middle European - as far as I know in England bascinets without any special type of face-protection were common. These helmets often had attached decorative elements.

http://www.themcs.org/armour/knights/Ash%20St...%20174.jpg

http://www.themcs.org/armour/knights/Caistor%...%20165.JPG

Cheers, Timm
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2016 2:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might want to move your portrayal forward by a decade.
Consider the brass of Sir Miles Stapleton, 1364, Norfolk
http://effigiesandbrasses.com/622/816/

Of similar date is the Egerton Genesis Picture Book, 1350-1375, Norfolk
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDisplay.aspx?ref=Egerton_MS_1894
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?year=...cript=4884

There is an example of a klappvisier in use on folio 13v in the top left.
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=...1894_f013v
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4884/14183/

All-in-all, I would advise against using so much splinted armor for an English portrayal. I wouldn't replace the mail aventail with a padded defense, though there is some evidence for cloth over the mail in northern England in Gawain.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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R. Charboneau




Location: United States
Joined: 06 Dec 2015

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2016 4:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the source of pictures Timm. Great resource to have.

Ive seen these type of bascinets before, from what I understand the skull of the bascinet was a blackened / painted metal and the "gold" decorations were tooled leather that was gilded. Or the decorations were made of brass.


http://effigiesandbrasses.com/793/1092/



Mart I totally agree with this harness not reflecting an English harness of the period. Unfortunately I am constrained by my skill set as well as a budget. Splinted armor, while easier to make, is less cost effective due to the multiple types of materials needed to construct a piece (rivets leather metal etc) as opposed to a piece of sheet metal formed to shape.
When my skills are up to par I will most likely make plate arm harnesses.


Thank you for the examples of a klappvisor in English art.

I am planning on making a chainmail aventail which will be padded/lined underneath. For the time being, a padded aventail will have to do. Chainmail is not hard to make per, se but is tedious. Like everyone else, I suppose I will work on my kit as I go. I also have plans to make a chainmail hauberk as well for this kit.
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