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Daniele Trentin




Location: Italy
Joined: 23 May 2014

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject: Riveted maille issues         Reply with quote

Greetings to all!

I'm experimenting with historical maille making, using period techniques and tools (by now, in their "modern" fashion).

I'm using 1.5mm annealed iron wire to make 6mm ID rings. By now, I'm able to coil, cut (with the built-in overlap), anneal, flatten and pierce them for round rivets. The problem comes when I'm riveting them.

I have tried with both 1mm and 1.5mm annealed wire. When I try to squeeze the rivet with my plier, it simply bends. The best result I've achieved is with 1mm wire: both ends are squeezed in a good manner, but the squeezed heads looks simply too small do withstand any stress. But usually it is squeezed on one side, but bends on the other...

Here are some pics of the faulty rings and of my riveting plier.



Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance!
[/img]
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's primarily an issue of the rivet being too long. I wouldn't worry about it too much, as the wedge-riveted Wallace A7 mail shirt has a similar issue of rivets folding over. Longer plier handles, and/or moving the dimple closer to the pivot will both provide more leverage for closing the rivet. You may also need a smaller dimple to form the head.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui


Last edited by Mart Shearer on Sun 14 Feb, 2016 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Erik D. Schmid, "Link Details from Articles of Mail in the Wallace Collection", Journal of the Mail Research Society, no. 1: 8

Quote:
12. This is an example of the type of rivet used on the
links of the sleeves of A7. This type of link was also
used to connect the latten edging found on the lower
edge of the body and also to attach the dense mail
patches that make up the armpit areas. (Photo courtesy
of the Trustees of the Wallace Collection, London)



 Attachment: 20.9 KB
Schmid, Wallace A7, fig.12.jpg


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Daniele Trentin




Location: Italy
Joined: 23 May 2014

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon 15 Feb, 2016 3:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for your answer, Mart. Yes, I thought the problem could have been the rivet being too long. But, when I tried a shorter one, I got the heads too small...m wondering if the problem could be the hollows on the plier not being properly formed. Maybe deeper?

Maybe the rivet not being the correct size? I used 1mm and 1.5mm wire because I have it at home...m not sure it is yhe correct thickness to make a river on a 1.5mm wire ring...

I have definetly to seek the article you mentioned and read it. Could be very interesting...,
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Daniele Trentin




Location: Italy
Joined: 23 May 2014

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu 17 Mar, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Finally got a Dremel tool and proper bits to make another hole on my pliers. This time I made it about half width and nearly same depth.

The issue with bending rivets remains, I cant' get properly set rivets at all.

I have tried to sharp my drift's hole to be more acute, in order to avoid making too conical holes. Nothing changed.
I tied to anneal again the rivet wire. Nothing changed.
I tried to squeeze the rivets when red hot after heating with the torch. Nothing changed.
Rivets continue to bend.

I have to try drilling the hole with a proper bit, in order to see if it's a conical hole issue or a plier issue. After that, I have no more ideas left. And Google isn't of great help.

I attach some pictures of the tools I used today.

Hope somebody can help.

The piercing tool I use, with size comparison with the rings (6mm ID per 1.5mm wire)


Some pierced rings


Riveted rings front...


..and back
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Alexander Hinman




Location: washington, dc
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Reading list: 50 books

Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri 18 Mar, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your problem may be that you are trying to upset (mushroom out) both sides of the rivet at the same time. Though I've never made mail, whenever I've made a pair of tongs I always either use rivets that have one side already upset or (if I'm making my own) do the upsetting on one side then insert it into the joint, then upset the other side.
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Peter Spätling
Industry Professional



Location: Germany
Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 118

PostPosted: Sat 19 Mar, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

looking at wedge riveted maille, the rivets themselves as the rivet holes are often conical. Try a 60° angel for you piercing tool. And also, try to hammer the rivethead. You stick the rivet through the hole, turn the ring around that the thin end of the rivet looks upwards and give it a strike with the hammer. This *could* work, a friend of mine is trying to recreate the water-shed effect on his rings, he uses a similar way. And yes he hammers his rivets, he 's not using a pair of pliers.
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