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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Choice of Gambeson patterns... Reply to topic
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Dave L.




Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Choice of Gambeson patterns...         Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm preparing to do a suit of mid-late 15th Century armor for SCA combat (brigandine, sallet, steel arms/legs) and have been looking at various gambeson patterns.

I am inclined to make a lightly-padded Charles de Blois version like Ian LaSpina made, but I am curious as whether folks thought that there was a better style of gambeson for use with a brigandine.

Thanks,
Dave L.

De gustibus non disputandum est.
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

Posts: 493

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is your kingdom calibration and standard and are you planning on using this for rebated steel combat as well? Also, what sorta of materiel are you planning on constructing the brig out of? Spring steel, mild steel, aluminum, aircraft aluminum, stainless steel, also, the thickness of the metal.
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Dave L.




Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I live in Caid; I'm not sure what the "official" calibration or standard level is. I am very new at this. My general attitude is that, if there is clear contact, I will take the blow. While I don't mind the occasional "sting", I don't want large welts or bruises. So I would like armor that is properly protective, and I assume people will be hitting me as hard as they can.

The brigandine I am looking at buying will be hardened spring steel under wool. I do not know its thickness. I am considering purchasing it from Aleksey Perebeynos. Arms, legs, and helmet will be stainless; arms and legs will be 16g.

Thank you for your input!

Dave

De gustibus non disputandum est.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Choice of Gambeson patterns...         Reply with quote

Dave L. wrote:
Hi,

I'm preparing to do a suit of mid-late 15th Century armor for SCA combat (brigandine, sallet, steel arms/legs) and have been looking at various gambeson patterns.

I am inclined to make a lightly-padded Charles de Blois version like Ian LaSpina made,.....


Charles de Blois, Duke of Brittany died in 1364. It will be impossible to get armor from 1450-1500 to properly fit, or look correct when wearing it over a garment from 100 years earlier in my opinion. You should look to copy doublets from the same time frame, if you want it to work for you like it worked for them.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dave L.




Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 9:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Point taken. Are arming doublets/gambesons, essentially, padded street clothes? I understand and know how to make a period doublet; but I have not seen anything which has the technical capacity of the poirpoint gambeson (in terms of mobility of arms, stability of leg mounts, etc.)

Are there extant examples or patterns of mid-15th century gambesons?

Cheers,
Dave

De gustibus non disputandum est.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Sat 13 Feb, 2016 11:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a lot of change in fashion between 1450-1500. Look at this arming doublet from c.1470:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Jorge_Ingles_01.jpg

With the addition of points and some minimal padding, the left-most pattern might serve as a base.
http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/downlo...-coat.html

Here's a lengthy older thread with a number of images worth considering.
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21451

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dave L.




Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the links, Mart.

I had actually been considering the padded shoulder version shown in the Reconstructing History link; a photo of that style with a brigandine is here: http://www.reliquary.co.uk/brig/image/image2/IMG_0309.jpg

It does not, however, appear to be an arming doublet. The padded shoulders appear to be a substitute for armor. But I suppose you could add brigantine spaulders over those: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4f/0d/74/4f0d74beea9773b09f24323071b75c2a.jpg.

Thanks,
Dave

De gustibus non disputandum est.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A number of contemporary depictions seem to show spaulders made in a similar globose form. Jan van Eyk's heroic armor for St. George in the van der Paele Madonna springs to mind.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Jan_van_Eyck_061.jpg

Consider some of the miniatures from Froissart's Chronicle, BNF Franšais 2643, from 1470-1475.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8438604...%202643%22

The padded shoulders appear to act as armor in conjuction with some plate on the arms of the central figure, while the man in the background with ear roundels seems to have spaulders which would fit over such padded shoulders. From fo.18r
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84386043/f59.item



 Attachment: 57.63 KB
BNF Fr.2643 fo.18r-brayette.jpg


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Dave L.




Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Joined: 13 Feb 2016

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun 14 Feb, 2016 10:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The padded shoulder with a brigandine spaulder seems like the way to go!

Thank you for your assistance!

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