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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Jan, 2016 6:06 pm    Post subject: Chipped pommel in new used sword         Reply with quote

Hi,

Got a used Berserkr from a guy on another site. It was held up for additional two days somewhere in transit despite the USPS promised priority two-day shipping. Box looked fine, but there is a chip in the pommel, and the blade tip was poking out of the bubble wrap. Seller says the chip was not there before shipping, and I cannot see the chip in the pics he sent me before hand. Blade looks fine, including tip, and besides some light scratches on blade that I would consider normal wear, there is no damage to the sword.

Please look at the pics below and let me know what you think. Can the chip somehow be repaired or smoothed out?

Thanks,



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Edward Lee




Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Jan, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like something made contact with the pommel. I would leave as it's not really a big problem, but you might be able to use a file to smooth the nicked part shown on the third picture.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 09 Jan, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Chipped pommel in new used sword         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Hi,

Please look at the pics below and let me know what you think. Can the chip somehow be repaired or smoothed out?

Thanks,



If it was my sword I think I could fix it with a fine tooted file, no use using a rougher file, then using emery cloth to smooth out any file marks and then using a sanding sponge of a grit similar to the normal Albion satin finish.

If the amount of material removed is small both sides of the pommel should still look symmetrical, otherwise you might take away the same amount of material on the intact side of the pommel.

By the way, nicks like this look a lot worse when they are " raw & fresh ", you only need to remove a surprisingly small amount of metal to restore the lines of the pommel.

It's important to control your cutting passes with the file to maintain crisp bevel edges and maintain the same cutting angles.

Some of the filing should be on the side of the pommel and some on the top surface and the dimple affects both surface planes.


When doing some test cutting some years back I hit nails in the top of the post holding the pumpkin I was cutting and nicked the sword's blade, it looked horribly deep as a nick but after a little resharpening the nick became very hard to find where it had been on the blade except for a small dull spot on the edge: So what looks like a deep dimple or nick can be smoothed out while filing away a surprisingly small amount of metal.

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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 1:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To me that very much looks like something hard and metal was dropped on it so I would be inclined to think your seller is being truthful.

Jean is bang on with what he says: it looks bad now, but with a little filing and then sanding out will make it look much, much better.

As a consideration though, your sword has now lost value and it may be worth pursuing a claim for a partial loss, though the paperwork involved may make this simply not worth it.

Tod

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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 6:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you friends. I got the sword only Friday afternoon. It is a very nice sword otherwise. I did request insurance for it, so perhaps I should pursue that. I've never had to do the process.

Quote:

If it was my sword I think I could fix it with a fine tooted file, no use using a rougher file,

Sorry Jean, this typo confuses me just a little. You mean to NOT use a rougher file? Just a fine toothed file then the emery cloth? I suppose it is some trial and error to find the right file to get the right amount of metal off.

Quote:
To me that very much looks like something hard and metal was dropped on it so I would be inclined to think your seller is being truthful.

I think you are right on Tod. The impact looks like something dropped on, not that the sword was dropped itself. And that would explain why the tip had come out of the bubble wrap as a result. One of the seller's original pictures is below, with no mark. I don't think he sent me an old pre-damage picture and then sent the sword.

Quote:
I would leave as it's not really a big problem, but you might be able to use a file to smooth the nicked part shown on the third picture.
Edward, I'm disappointed but not heartbroken because it as you say isn't a big problem for handling and otherwise the sword is good, just the berserking hewing sword I wanted! It really is a great weapon. I will probably hold off on filing out the chip until I find out about the insurance process. But I think I will ultimately work on the chip.


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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All I can relate is what I would personally do with that sword....

Given a chip, in the location shown? I would grind out the chip, then smooth it, then polish it - with a dremmel.
Having done so - I would attack the opposite valley in the same fashion, to produce a symmetrical pommel.

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Thank you friends. I got the sword only Friday afternoon. It is a very nice sword otherwise. I did request insurance for it, so perhaps I should pursue that. I've never had to do the process.

Quote:

If it was my sword I think I could fix it with a fine tooted file, no use using a rougher file,

Sorry Jean, this typo confuses me just a little. You mean to NOT use a rougher file? Just a fine toothed file then the emery cloth? I suppose it is some trial and error to find the right file to get the right amount of metal off.



Yes I did mean to write using a file with finer teeth, like a jeweller's file, and not a corse bastard file thus avoiding making deep file cuts multiple grooves that would also need to be smoothed out. Oh, and that was a really good typo I didn't notice and sort of funny .... Wink Big Grin Cool

Note: Dean's idea of using a dremel is a good alternative but I think that there is so little metal needing to be removed that using a hand held file and doing it very slowly is a lot less risky than using a power tool, unless you are very confident and skilled in the use of the dremel.

A lot also depends on the choice of dremel tool bit you want to use ? I would avoid anything that would remove metal too quickly and risk turning a small dimple into a deep hole ..... Wink

I might even use a flat surface diamond hone like an Lansky sharpening tool to remove material very very slowly and under control. A lot depends on a steady hand and how skilled you are with hand tools.

Something like this instead of using a file: With a flat surface it is better than using a round diamond rod to produce a controlled flat surface and rocking it slightly to match the existing curves on the pommel.

http://www.alflahertys.com/collections/lansky...grit-ldfpm

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Carl W.




Location: usa
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unless its sharp I'd leave it alone, or at least be in no hurry to work on it. A minor battle ding from where it hit the enemy's helmet :)

If you decide to work on it... Not to take away from high praise & thanks to Dean (his scabbard docs), but a dremel could quickly make it much worse. Less risk & more satisfying by hand as Jean & Tod suggest.

Congratulations, nice grab! I had been thinking about that one.
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jan, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Thank you friends. I got the sword only Friday afternoon. It is a very nice sword otherwise. I did request insurance for it, so perhaps I should pursue that. I've never had to do the process.

Quote:

If it was my sword I think I could fix it with a fine tooted file, no use using a rougher file,

Sorry Jean, this typo confuses me just a little. You mean to NOT use a rougher file? Just a fine toothed file then the emery cloth? I suppose it is some trial and error to find the right file to get the right amount of metal off.



Yes I did mean to write using a file with finer teeth, like a jeweller's file, and not a corse bastard file thus avoiding making deep file cuts multiple grooves that would also need to be smoothed out. Oh, and that was a really good typo I didn't notice and sort of funny .... Wink Big Grin Cool

Note: Dean's idea of using a dremel is a good alternative but I think that there is so little metal needing to be removed that using a hand held file and doing it very slowly is a lot less risky than using a power tool, unless you are very confident and skilled in the use of the dremel.

A lot also depends on the choice of dremel tool bit you want to use ? I would avoid anything that would remove metal too quickly and risk turning a small dimple into a deep hole ..... Wink

I might even use a flat surface diamond hone like an Lansky sharpening tool to remove material very very slowly and under control. A lot depends on a steady hand and how skilled you are with hand tools.

Something like this instead of using a file: With a flat surface it is better than using a round diamond rod to produce a controlled flat surface and rocking it slightly to match the existing curves on the pommel.

http://www.alflahertys.com/collections/lansky...grit-ldfpm


Worth noting - were I doing this? I would not even use a dremmel grinder.

The order would be rough SANDPAPER wheel, fine sandpaper wheel, Poly polishing wheel. That gouge just isn't serious enough for anything more agresive....

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Richard Miller




Location: Santa Barbara
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's the kind of thing that drives me mad! It's really no big deal, but it's an Albion and I'd want it to be flawless. The furnishings from Albion are mild steel, if I remember correctly, so it wouldn't be hard to progressively remove material from both sides of the pommel for a hardly noticeable repair.
That being said, I would personally just leave it. I like to think of small damage like that as "character marks" that individualize a fine piece.
If insurance is involved, perhaps the sword could be repaired by Albion. They would be more than qualified to address the problem.
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J. Nicolaysen




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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well I have started an insurance claim since I figure "might as well". I don't know what will come of it.

I did contact Albion to see what they might do, and the result of the insurance claim may determine that.

Personally I do see the merit in "battle marks", "character marks" or at least "this sword is mine" marks. Like a lot of guys, I can usually tell a story about every scar I have and every ding on every vehicle...But if I don't send it to Albion for care, I will probably smooth it out, since it does have a bit of a hangnail type of feel.

I like Dean's idea of replicating the ding on the other side for symmetry, but I don't know that I am capable of that. I do have a friend with a dremel, so that might be the easiest way to go. If not, would I find a jewelers' file online or in a hardware store? I go to those stores often but have not noticed them before. I have a few farrier's shoeing files ... Eek! Eek! Eek! Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud

Thanks for all the ideas! Nice to commiserate anyhow.
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J. Nicolaysen




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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan, 2016 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually, what would be awesome is to inlay some twisted wire along the crease of the pommel sections...But I don't know if that's possible, and I really don't think this is the sword to start learning that on though!
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 12:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On this sort of thing I would steer away from power tools completely and do it by hand. Power tools are great when you have a lot of work to do; this will be very quick and by hand will give far, far less scope for errors.

Tod

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:

I like Dean's idea of replicating the ding on the other side for symmetry, but I don't know that I am capable of that. I do have a friend with a dremel, so that might be the easiest way to go. If not, would I find a jewelers' file online or in a hardware store? I go to those stores often but have not noticed them before. I have a few farrier's shoeing files ... Eek! Eek! Eek! Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud

Thanks for all the ideas! Nice to commiserate anyhow.


I don't think that Dean meant to create a new " DING " on the ther side for symmetry Surprised Eek!

What he meant I think is that you could replicate the amount of material removed to smooth out the ding on the other side if you see a perceivable asymmetry: If the amount of material removed is small on the " DING SIDE " there might not be any noticeable asymmetry.

As to using files as long as the file you use is a metal working file and using the finest type you can find it should work.

I mentioned jeweller's files but I found very small files of various cross sections sold together in a single package and at a reasonable price.

The whole thing really depends on how skilled you are with hand tools: I tend to find this stuff easy because I'm good at drawing and at doing sculpture and very used and confident using hand tools.

Getting Albion to do the repairs is certainly the best way to get it fixed perfectly, and the resale value shouldn't be affected if Albion does it. Also, while they have the sword in hand they can remove any small finish blemishes while they are already at it.

But as Leo mentioned stay far far away from power tools as it's not needed for the small amount of metal needing to be taken off, and unless you have a very steady hand you can turn a small issue into a real " BIG MESS " !

Oh, and before you use any files on the pommel try using the files on a scrap piece of steel if you are unsure of your skill level or you just need a bit of practice if you have never done any metal work with files.

Hope this helps.

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Julien M




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why not fill the ding with weld? Then sand anew? That's what I'd do, would be as good as new...
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julien M wrote:
Why not fill the ding with weld? Then sand anew? That's what I'd do, would be as good as new...



Well, that seems like a whole other can of worms ! Firstly you would have to be experienced doing welding, next you have to heat the pommel a lot ! Do you do it leaving it mounted on the sword or do you remove it first considering that it's a peened pommel ? ( Julien I assume that this solution would work for you because you have done other DIY projects and you already have the technical skills to know how to do it at a low risk of ruining the sword ..... Wink Cool )

Will the new metal added to the pommel what if it ends up having a different colour than the rest of the pommel after re-polishing if the welding rod's steel alloy is different ?

If heated the whole pommel with end up being heat blued, or at least a large part of it meaning that the whole pommel would need to be re-polished and then re-peened onto the tang etc .....

Some sort of arc/spot welding might be possible in theory, but also not a job for an amateur who has never done any welding before.

If sent back to Albion they could file out the " DING " or they could disassemble the sword and replace the pommel with a new pommel.

But if it was my sword I'm fairly confident I could fix it in one evening of file work but I've hand filed metal before and I know what I can do and what might be beyond my skill set.

My first Albion was a Gaddhalt purchased around 2003 and it arrived with a damaged sword point that happened in shipping: The last few millimetres of the point had been bent and deformed, I fixed that with files and diamond abrasive and the point looked fine after I worked on it. Since I could fix it easily myself I didn't even consider sending it back to Albion.

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Richard Miller




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! Lots of attention for such a small ding.
Since there's no rush, especially now that insurance is involved (we all know how quickly that process moves), Why not brush up or improve your skills and do some practice metal work? I always keep "scrounge" stock around such as damaged or cheap things and I have a couple of really lousy swords that I've used to practice etching, bluing, polishing, etc..
Perhaps you've got a lot more talent than you know?
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J. Nicolaysen




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Whatever the outcome here is, maybe somebody else can get some good tips out of it too, because honestly the mail service can always mess up. This sort of thing might surely happen to someone else.

Quote:
Why not fill the ding with weld? Then sand anew? That's what I'd do, would be as good as new...

So I contacted Albion and this was actually their suggestion. I do have an arc welder, but it would run too hot for this type of thing and I'm not very good at it. Think Farmer Weld, not Craftsman weld. Laughing Out Loud I can solder pipe fittings pretty good, but that doesn't seem to be the right stuff.

So depending on the insurance result I may go ahead and have Albion do this. Mike S. was only working off the same pics as you guys so maybe they would end up with a different idea, like filing. I don't know what it would do to the value of the piece, but it would probably do the best. I am not really concerned with resale value since I just got it, but it is nice if it has some potential.

I work with tools pretty much every day, but it's more brute force than finesse when you are building a fence or turning a wrench. I don't have much opportunity for fine work, but if the insurance doesn't go through, I'll probably look for some files and try that out.

One thing is that the type of metal I have laying around doesn't seem at all to be the same mild steel. It's hardened or galvanized or so forth. So I don't know how useful that will be. Thanks again for all the replies. It's very interesting to hear the different approaches, none of which I had thought about.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Nicolaysen wrote:
Thanks guys. Whatever the outcome here is, maybe somebody else can get some good tips out of it too, because honestly the mail service can always mess up. This sort of thing might surely happen to someone else.



Yes that is a good point to keep in mind: When I reply to Topics like this I'm not only replying to the person asking the questions I also have in mind giving general information that might be useful to others with a similar problem, and I think many of use have that in the back of our minds in our hopefully helpful advice/information.

I will at times add things that might be obvious basic information to the original person asking the question(s) but not known by everybody reading the Topic. Wink Big Grin

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Julien M




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2016 2:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Julien I assume that this solution would work for you because you have done other DIY projects and you already have the technical skills to know how to do it at a low risk of ruining the sword [/i]..... Wink


Not really Jean Happy - in fact I'm often lacking the required skills (or part of these) when undertaking a project, that's why I start these in the first place, to learn. I have a all list in mind ranging from enameling to welding soldering, etching, hollow grinding etc etc.

In this case, since it's an Albion and the stakes are high, I might just go to someone who knows his stuff to lay a dab of weld on top, then take the all thing home to sand. I did this a few years back at my local garage - paid 5 for it and after sanding the result was top notch. Now I would probably try it myself now, with my 60 lidl welder...can't be that hard! Happy

edit: Discoloring the pommel in the process should not be a concern, will be localized, a good rub with a sanding sponge will restaure your satin finish in no time. No weed to dismount and re peen either. The only concern here is overheating the pommel during the process, but I would not be able to assess the level of risk on the assembly of the sword (if will not be enough to compromise the peen for sure, more concerned about the epoxy in the grip - might be worth wrapping a wet towel around it.

Cheers,

J
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