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Jim C S




Location: Birmingham
Joined: 18 Nov 2015

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 7:29 am    Post subject: natural rust preventative         Reply with quote

I've been thinking of a way to prevent rust on my sword blades that may be more in keeping with historical options.
I've started using lanolin, a very thin coat, on my blade. Several modern rust preventatives and lubricants for firearms and
machine parts use lanolin as the major component. I warm a small amount in my palm and rub a thin coat on the steel of
my piece then lightly buff out the streaks with a soft thin cloth. This leaves a very thin H2o,O2 barrier on the steel.
Additionally, if you have a high quality scabbard for your sword or dagger, like a Christian Fletcher, the lanolin won't damage the wool lining like a hydrocarbon derivative might. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences with this method they could share?
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Peter Lyon
Industry Professional



Location: New Zealand
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Reading list: 39 books

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I used a beeswax/olive oil mix quite a lot, especially on armour. It works by making a blend that works for your climate, so that the heat of rubbing the container of it with a cloth makes it go greasy, then it solidifies on the piece and can be left thick for storage or rubbed back to leave a thin coating. A starting mix is about 1 part beeswax to 2 parts olive oil (or is it the other way, I can never remember), heat the beeswax until liquid and slowly add the olive oil (too fast at it cools and solidifies the mixture)
Still hammering away
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Jim C S




Location: Birmingham
Joined: 18 Nov 2015

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject: Rust         Reply with quote

Any issues with the olive oil ever going rancid?
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The commercial product Fluid-film is a lanolin-based anti-corrosion spray. Recently someone on the Armour Archve tested about 25 anti-corrosion agents and Fluid-film was the best, by far. Lanolin works extremely well.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Most of my research concerns armor rather than weapons. That said, they're both iron or steel, susceptible to rust, and would be kept together.

Bertus Brokamp and the late Will McLean both found references for using bran to scour armor. Bran also contains a certain amount of natural oil. As a waste product of sifting flour, it made an inexpensive and common scouring powder.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...hilit=bran
Bertus Brokamp wrote:
Two weeks ago I bought a book with transcriptions of the household accounts of the count of Holland in 1358-1361, so this find is quite fresh.

On page 465 (account of 1360-61) it reads:
... ghelevert toten hoenre behoef ende in den stal ende in de haernasch camere thaernasch mede te scuren binnen der tijt voerseide: 13 achtendel zemele
'... delivered for the chickens need and in the stables and in the armour room, to scour the armour with, within the time aforementioned: 13 -X volume- bran'

Apparantly the 'achtendeel' was a volume of some 34 litres in the year 1810.


http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2008...-mail.html
Quote:
"Paid, the xv daye of Julye, at the campe at Dunglasse, by th’andes of George Ynglyshe, for tow urynalles and one skeyn of threed, vjd.; for canvaus to make a bagg to scowre my Lordes shyrt of meale in, xiiijd.; and for brane to the same, ijd.;" 1549


Likewise, we can find wax in the armories:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...x#p2748158
Quote:
1311 Inventory of John fitz Marmaduke, Lord of Horden

Cirotecae de balayn xij d.
Baleen gauntlets, 12d.
j capud lanceae xij d.
1 lance-head, 12d.
Cera iiij d.
Wax 4d.

j bacinet et j par de geaumbers v s.
1 bascinet and 1 pair of greaves, 5s.


Varnish also seems to have been used on armor.
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...=varnished
Quote:
Inventory of Raoul de Nesle, Constable of France, killed 1302, Battle of Courtrai

Item une couvertures a cheval pourpointée ii testieres de soie a cheval iii chapiaus de Montauban iii hiaumes et i baehinet vernicié viiil xvis
Item, one pourpoint horse bard, 2 silk testiers for the horse, 3 kettle hats of Montauban, 3 helms, and 1 varnished bascinet. 8 l., 16 s.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Jim C S




Location: Birmingham
Joined: 18 Nov 2015

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting. Thanks for the info guys.
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Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
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Posts: 110

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 12:16 am    Post subject: Rust preventative         Reply with quote

Hi Jim

I've used a mix of lanolin and baby oil, as a not-so-historical substitute for olive oil.

I've also made some ax polishes using turpentine and beeswax. You can also use a blend of waxes: if you mix in a harder wax like Carnuba into the beeswax you can form quite a tough coat. These work well on sword furniture and then the lanolin/baby oil on the blade.

Mart - I was very interested in your comment about varnished harness. Can you elaborate on the type of varnish used?

regards
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
and 1 varnished bascinet.


and as an aside to Bertus' very useful findings I'll add that some pigments will dissolve readily in varnish so you can get some pretty funky paint effects that way. Need to prove that of course but hey, we can't be too far off a harness in authentic flip/metallic/pearlsed paint ;-)

Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 12:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

and soething else

Quote:
Cera iiij d.
Wax 4d.


that's wax listed twice. Wonder why?

Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Griffin wrote:
and soething else

Quote:
Cera iiij d.
Wax 4d.


that's wax listed twice. Wonder why?


Possibly different types of wax. Beeswax for one, that's the obvious answer. However, it's possible to create some other natural waxes by simple refining methods, notably with various oils. But it's also possible that 'cera' and 'wax' refer to the same wax in different qualities or refinements. Without further context it's hard to say.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Rust preventative         Reply with quote

Mike O'Hara wrote:
Mart - I was very interested in your comment about varnished harness. Can you elaborate on the type of varnish used?

regards
mike


I'm afraid not. All that we have for certain is the inventory listing fot it. There are a few options which might have been available, including linseed oil mixed with pine sap, but which one was used is entirely speculation.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Griffin wrote:
and soething else

Quote:
Cera iiij d.
Wax 4d.


that's wax listed twice. Wonder why?


Because the first is the Latin inventory listing, and the second is my translation to English?

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2015 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
Mark Griffin wrote:
and soething else

Quote:
Cera iiij d.
Wax 4d.


that's wax listed twice. Wonder why?


Because the first is the Latin inventory listing, and the second is my translation to English?


...derp. Well why did you have to go and bollix up a perfectly decent-ish explanation :P (I kid!)
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Greg Ballantyne




Location: Maryland USA
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
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Posts: 233

PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the lanolin lubricants. They have a lot of staying power, a historical basis, and are very effective. I was using gun oil, but have found the lanolin based lubricant to be far better. No problem in the scabbard, as well.
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