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Matthew Colvin




Location: Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
Joined: 05 Nov 2015

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject: Curious about interesting sword from DHM         Reply with quote

(Before I start, I think I should warn people that this is my first post. I have never formally studied this stuff, but in my bored free time I have made something of a hobby of reading about it, browsing picture galleries of weapons and armor, and perusing forums like this. I preemptively apologize for any errors I will inevitably make!)

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who occasionally looks through museum websites and other picture galleries of weapons for entertainment purposes. I could spend days at Carl Koppeschaar's Flickr page, for example. Recently on a whim I did a search of the text "schwert" at the Deutches Historisches Museum's database (the objektdatenbank). There are some really beautiful and fascinating weapons there, and several seemingly unique or unusual ones. This one in particular piqued my interest:



Link: http://www.dhm.de/datenbank/dhm.php?seite=5&fld_0=AK004361

Width: 4 (blade width)
Length: 114.8 cm
Length: 90.7 (blade)
Length: 23.2 (guard)
Weight: 1,260 g

The listed date of production is 1501 to 1515, so it's a contemporary of many popular weapons, reproductions of which are obviously available all over. The listed dimensions seem to put it nicely in the German longsword or maybe bastard sword category unless I'm mistaken. But I don't recall ever seeing another longsword or bastard sword with quite the same quillons or pommel. I would call the quillons "s-shaped" for lack of a better term, but they are mostly straight and curl around to almost form small circles near the ends. I don't know if the pommel falls into any typology or not. It is obviously reminiscent of other common pommels, such as Oakeshott type V, but as with the cross guard I've never really seen one quite like this. Lastly, the single picture doesn't give much detail of the blade's shape. It looks like it might have a central reinforcing "ridge" similar to this Italian type XV: http://sword-site.com/thread/741/oakeshott-type-xv-sword-pommel. But for all I know that's an artifact of a low-quality photograph.

Has anybody seen this sword or one similar to it? Any guesses what the whole thing would look like, maybe even what kind of grip it would likely have had? I find myself very curious about this one because it seems somewhat unique to me, and I have probably looked at hundreds of swords online at this point. Thanks, and I hope the links and images work properly...
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Ryan Renfro




Location: Reno, NV
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 86

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, there is a bastard sword will a similar cross-guard in the Dean Castle collection, Cat No. no. MA 15.17. The tag suggests Switzerland as a possible country of origin. As you can see, the pommel is different - the same style as a Del Tin 2160. Itís a fine weapon. The chamfered edges of the cross transition into an octagonal section at the end of the curves and terminate in a semicircle. The hexagonal section of the blade runs all the way to the tip; I donít recall seeing a similar tip geometry. It also has an obvious grinding mistake right at the end of the ricasso about 4 cm wide, suggesting whatever wheel was being used was approximately the same width as a modern 2Ē belt sander.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodo_1975/8744333527/sizes/c/in/set-72157633512091716/
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Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The pictured sword strikes me as what one might consider a "Landschneckt" weapon - Lutel and Arms & Armor make some similar arms based on examples from the 1500s. Complex hilt furniture was becoming quite commonplace during that time - I'd say the weapon looks really quite commonplace in most respects - the only thing that strikes me as uncommon is the pommel, and only because I'm more of a fan of mid-1400s arms myself.
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Mark Lewis





Joined: 19 Apr 2014

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 359

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Curious about interesting sword from DHM         Reply with quote

Matthew Colvin wrote:
(It looks like it might have a central reinforcing "ridge" similar to this Italian type XV: http://sword-site.com/thread/741/oakeshott-type-xv-sword-pommel. But for all I know that's an artifact of a low-quality photograph.

Has anybody seen this sword or one similar to it? Any guesses what the whole thing would look like, maybe even what kind of grip it would likely have had?

You can find an illustration of the complete sword at the end of this article: http://hroarr.com/manuals/other/Wanke-Tilman-...1-2009.pdf

It does have a central ridge, but the blade appears to be more of a type XVIII than XV.
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Andrew Gill





Joined: 19 Feb 2015

Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri 06 Nov, 2015 2:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A nice and interesting-looking weapon! I think that the pommel is actually an exaggerated, highly flared form of a simplified fish-tale (a highly mutated Oakeshott type V1 maybe?) Those curved-tipped ends to the cross are also just an exaggerated version of the more common swept or side-curved crosses on many german swords - where the curve is normally more evenly distributed along the length of the arms/quillons. Somehow the cross reminds me of one on a scandinavian two-hander I saw somewhere - I'm not sure why. This sword certainly looks unusual, but I would guess it is really only unsusual in the degree to which some elements of the design are exaggerated, rather than a completely original oddball design that sprung from nowhere.

(The pommel does look a bit like a cinquedea pommel too, but the rest of the hilt and the blade would be entirely wrong, and it is lacking the bronze rivet/rondel/medallion thingy which those so often have, so it is probably coincidence.)
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