Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Do Albion swords come with scabbards?? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Michael Kelly





Joined: 22 Sep 2015

Posts: 54

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 5:30 am    Post subject: Do Albion swords come with scabbards??         Reply with quote

So my wife has strongly hinted that I might be getting either the Pedite or the Trajan Pompeii Gladius for Christmas, and it's dawned on me that whenever I see someone post their Albion swords I never hear about their scabbards. Can someone verify if Albion swords come with scabbards or not?
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 5:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albion site listed couple scabbard makers, their swords don't come with a scabbard.
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/scabbards/scabbards.htm
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately no. Albion used to offer a service to make scabbards, but it was quite costly unless you got the most basic type; I think that artisan has left their employment though so it's not an option any longer.

There are several excellent makers who can make many scabbards for you . Sometimes without you having to send in the sword. Christian Fletcher and Brian Kunz are probably the biggest names out there. Russ Ellis of Tritonworks may also be available. Steve Huerta (I don't know if he has a website but he has a Facebook page, Steve Huerta Custom Leatherworks or some such) does good work as well though he's just getting started. JE Sarge used to make them, but unfortunately he's out of business right now due to other obligations. If you're UK or Europe based, Leo Todeschini also does Albion scabbards.
View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 31 pages

Posts: 650

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Russ Ellis of Tritonworks may also be available.


I contacted Russ in late September and have not heard anything. I probably might try again, but it seems he's been quiet here also.

Quote:
If you're UK or Europe based, Leo Todeschini also does Albion scabbards.
Tod ships to US also. I'm just beginning a process with him for an Albion scabbard.
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 3,789

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can buy the Albion sword through Christian Fletcher, and he will make the scabbard for you - so you can consolidate. The scabbards are not inexpensive. http://www.christianfletcher.com/
View user's profile Send private message
Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Thu 05 Nov, 2015 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Right from Albion? No. And (just me) - I'm glad they do NOT.

There are a LOAD of sword makers that offer scabbards with their offerings. For the most part? Those scabbards are garbage. Yes - they will hold a sword.... probably SEVERAL swords, of totally different proportions.

Just me - but I would give Albion credit for making a really GOOD sword - and leaving the really GOOD scabbard to others that are very good at making scabbards - and not forcing you into buying a substandard paint stick, at extra cost, that you would likely toss out in the trash anyway.

All opinion - not gospel, I make my own scabbards.... and have accumulated a LOT of OEM "paint stick junk" that I would hate to see others get stuck with Happy.

Example core, WIP - poplar, not a paint stick, total cost about $28 in raw materials. Labor? WHAT labor? Happy.



In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathon Janusz





Joined: 20 Nov 2003

Posts: 467

PostPosted: Fri 06 Nov, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Word on the grapevine is that Albion's scabbard shop is slowly opening back up for business. Last I heard, they were putting up ready-to-ship scabbards as the became available, but not taking direct commissions as of yet. It might be worth a phone call to see where they are currently at on scabbard work to be sure.
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Æthelmearc
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sat 07 Nov, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Regardless of who makes a scabbard, I think the key to a good scabbard is to do your research and be very, very detailed with your specs. Just because someone is a skilled and experienced scabbard maker doesn't mean that they will make you a proper period scabbard.
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 3,789

PostPosted: Sat 07 Nov, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathon Janusz wrote:
Word on the grapevine is that Albion's scabbard shop is slowly opening back up for business. Last I heard, they were putting up ready-to-ship scabbards as the became available, but not taking direct commissions as of yet. It might be worth a phone call to see where they are currently at on scabbard work to be sure.


Albion talks about it Here A guy named Buck Bates
View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Fri 20 Nov, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Do Albion swords come with scabbards??         Reply with quote

Dean's sword got a nice scabbard. Funny thing is why would a company like Albion make swords without scabbards.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 20 Nov, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry is dead-on here. Professional scabbard makers do not necessarily know the subtle nuances of how scabbards changed in style over a particular century, or the subtle variations based upon geographic regions. Some, like our own Maciej Kopciuch, spend time closely studying period art before creating a scabbard for a commission, but not all do. The other challenge is that a scabbard maker ultimately need to do what the customer wants, so if a customer wants a metal chape on their late 11th/early 12th century sword, the customer gets one.

I suspect a fair number of people (not necessarily scabbard makers, but laymen) have seen Peter Johnsson’s guide on making a scabbard and think “Great-now I know how to make an authentic medieval scabbard!” The reality, of course, is that Peter’s guide is an excellent guide for one particular style of scabbard, most appropriate as general representation for part of the 13th century. Yet the styles of suspension, strapping, incised lines, the presence or absence of chapes (and their shape) and many other factors affect how appropriate a particular scabbard is for a particular period and region. It’s easy, however, to think “A scabbard is a scabbard is a scabbard”--just the way many people would look at Oakeshott Type X, Xa, XI, XIa, XII, and XIIIb swords and think “They’re all the same!” It’s noticing nuance and detail that is crucial for the connoisseur of historically accurate swords, and of historically accurate scabbards, too.


Last edited by Craig Peters on Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 737

PostPosted: Sat 21 Nov, 2015 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Do Albion swords come with scabbards??         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Dean's sword got a nice scabbard. Funny thing is why would a company like Albion make swords without scabbards.


I think the main reason is that Albion focuses on making as historically accurate swords as possible in a certain price range and to add a scabbard to it that would match the accuracy would cause the cost to over double. And that would be for a generic scabbard. I know from my personal experience buying scabbards and suspension for my swords that they cost more then the sword they are for and they are not even highly decorated like some of the work that Brian at DBK has made or Russ Ellis or Tod's stuff.

Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
View user's profile Send private message
Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As noted, for Albion to do a scabbard & suspension in line with the accuracy and quality of their swords, you would be looking at double the time and nearly double the price, unless you are happy with a Windlass-style scabbard (only loosely "fitted", ahistorical and bland). The reasons for this is that: every sword is just a little different, and a scabbard could not be made until the sword is finished; each scabbard would have to be finished entirely by hand, meaning significant labor cost (assuming people want to get paid for what they do...); and, to be economically viable, pricing would have to include some allowance for mistakes and starting over - humans are not infallible, chisels occasionally slip, materials sometimes have unseen defects, etc.

As one that has had scabbards made by a top-notch craftsman, but one that used their own sword as stand-in, rather than me sending my actual sword, I would also counsel against "off the shelf", no matter how good the craftsman is. In my case, I received four top-notch scabbards and suspensions; unfortunately, only one of them fit "right" - one was a bit loose, and two a bit tight. I can make certain modifications to make the fit better, but it will never be completely "right". This isn't due to poor workmanship by the maker, but due to slight variances even in "production" swords. Even though each Albion starts with a billet standard to each blade (as I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong), each blade is still ground by an individual human being, by hand, and not all laser or water cut by a CNC machine that will theoretically do everything exactly the same way, to the micrometer, each and every time. A half-millimeter of difference between my Albion and the scabbard maker's Albion of the same design will mean that my sword fits differently than the maker's sword, and will mean I've spent several hundred dollars for something that isn't quite right. Nobody made an error in production - I simply made an error in budgeting and judgement. I should have budgeted the purchase of a hard-case for shipping, and for the shipping itself, and sent my sword to the maker, who could then fit the scabbard precisely to my sword. This is likely to add 10% to 25% to the cost (depending upon where you send it) but will result in as perfect a fit has human hands can render. If the case is big enough, maybe you can cut the per-unit cost by shipping multiple swords, although you might then get into "oversize package" costs that make the economics less favorable.

Bottom line - a maker such as Albion will likely never make scabbards a "standard" feature of every sword. And they shouldn't - scabbards & suspensions are as much about decoration and personal style as they are about storage and carry. If they issued a scabbard with every sword, for it to be even minimally economical, it would have to be a simple leather sheath, unadorned. While this would be reasonable for storage purposes, it wouldn't really provide the functional and historic product that most people would actually want. This is something A&A actually offers - I have a second-hand Durer with their simple leather scabbard - works fine for storage, and I can actually fit it into a pre-made suspension and frog, but it isn't really very historical from a "carry" perspective - I'd have to do research to determine how often such sheaths were used in practice for storage and transport, since it seems a decent idea. However, if I order a new sword from them and don't have the funds or inclination to have a custom scabbard made immediately, then I would likely spring for the extra ~$100 (usually a little less, as I recall), and have the simple "storage" scabbard shipped with.

I think I ended up on a soap box and chasing a few tangents - sorry about that - but I hope my points and my reasons for them came through.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alex Bond




Location: CA USA
Joined: 10 Mar 2012

Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat 21 Nov, 2015 7:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FYI Albion DOES make scabbards. Their scabbard maker is Buck Bates. I own 4 and have another in the making. They're quite nice and a value at the price in my opinion even though they're ready made and not custom to your order (though I'm sure if you contacted Mike at Albion he'd work something out with you and Buck). Since Albion has all swords in house there is no need to ship yours off to be fit perfectly too.

You can see them here:

http://albion-swords.com/swords/scabbards/Buck%20Scabbards.htm

Wake early if you want another man's life or land.
No lamb for the lazy wolf. No battle's won in bed.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Do Albion swords come with scabbards??
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum