Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > testing out a new technique Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,209

PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: testing out a new technique         Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/pe9cXWQgz1Q
Testing out a new cut with Longship Armoury John Lundemo DS.

Ancient Combat Association http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think this may be comparable to the "arming sword ward" used for a longsword play seen on plate 157 of Codex Wallerstein - see the link below:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/163.jpg

As you can tell from making your strike, you cannot well retain control of the sword with both hands after making contact with the target - this would be the same situation for the chap countering the oberhau in the plate linked above. Thus, this is really a one-time strike: you must hit the target or come to a bind and then begin grappling. Otherwise, you're in genuine mortal danger.

As an aside, I think this is a very interesting ward, though quite a risky one depending on the opposition. It strikes a similar blow to the conventional schielhau, in which it strikes on the same side as the oncoming attack, given that both combatants have the same dominant side. Note also that it can use the adversary's "energy against them," considering that it strikes in the same general direction as the oncoming attack (thus a hard bind is avoided). Unlike the schielhau, the blade does not bide down vertically, but instead stikes as a conventional mittelhau. The blade, also unlike the schielhau, does not rely on the opponent's sword to be pushed into said opponent's ear or neck.The holder of the low ward must step to his off-side, unlike that in Liechtenaur systems, as the right leg is forward and not aft.
View user's profile Send private message
Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,209

PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's interesting compare! Thanks for introducing that technique to me. Happy I did not know such technique back when I practice German longsword.

Michael Beeching wrote:
I think this may be comparable to the "arming sword ward" used for a longsword play seen on plate 157 of Codex Wallerstein - see the link below:

Ancient Combat Association http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The dates on the sections in Codex Wallerstein are apparently all over the place; the plate in the link above would have been older than those in the annotated sections. Just like today, there would have been martial arts systems galore in old Europe - I think it may be more sensible to say that, rather than German or Italian "systems," you have regional variations in technique in the Holy Roman Empire. There was certainly a lot of sharing between Germany and Italy - I do not think it would be wise to say that German and Italian traditions are so different, especially as time went on. Ringeck's "das riedel" ("the wheel") is basically Fiore's tail gaurd. By the time of Meyer, there are many tie-ins between both Master Liechtenaur and Master Fiore.

On that note, the plate linked above is more akin to the "Italian traditions," as someone might try to classify them, as they rely more so on the traditional seven wards (a broad reference to I.33). You may note that Fiore uses many wards and seems to specify that certain strikes come from them. Liechtenaur, in contrast, often has strikes come from four "condensed" wards, which do most or all of what the traditional wards did. Vom tag is basically a form of the Walpurgis ward from I.33, and most any strike can be executed from that position. To my understanding, that is the fundamental difference between the Great German master and the Great Italian master.
View user's profile Send private message
Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,209

PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with you. There were no german and italian back then. And you know how interesting it is to compare what I do now to what I used to do, through your view. Thank you for your insights and those are very fascinating. Big Grin

Michael Beeching wrote:
The dates on the sections in Codex Wallerstein are apparently all over the place; the plate in the link above would have been older than those in the annotated sections. Just like today, there would have been martial arts systems galore in old Europe - I think it may be more sensible to say that, rather than German or Italian "systems," you have regional variations in technique in the Holy Roman Empire. There was certainly a lot of sharing between Germany and Italy - I do not think it would be wise to say that German and Italian traditions are so different, especially as time went on. Ringeck's "das riedel" ("the wheel") is basically Fiore's tail gaurd. By the time of Meyer, there are many tie-ins between both Master Liechtenaur and Master Fiore.

On that note, the plate linked above is more akin to the "Italian traditions," as someone might try to classify them, as they rely more so on the traditional seven wards (a broad reference to I.33). You may note that Fiore uses many wards and seems to specify that certain strikes come from them. Liechtenaur, in contrast, often has strikes come from four "condensed" wards, which do most or all of what the traditional wards did. Vom tag is basically a form of the Walpurgis ward from I.33, and most any strike can be executed from that position. To my understanding, that is the fundamental difference between the Great German master and the Great Italian master.

Ancient Combat Association http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > testing out a new technique
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum