Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search


Please help our efforts with a donation. It's time to pay our annual server hosting bill. We've collected 1669.00 towards our goal of 2640 USD. View Goal Progress
Last 10 Donors: Gregg Sobocinski, Neil Eddiford, Antal László, Stefan Gruenewald, Chad Arnow, Adam Simmonds, Aaron Hoard, Todd Hawkins, Lloyd Winter, Jesse Belsky (View All Donors)

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Wood for a scabbard? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep, 2015 9:30 pm    Post subject: Wood for a scabbard?         Reply with quote

Yes there's lots of scabbard threads.

I'd like to try my hand at making a scabbard (for a late 14th early 15th C. longsword) in the similar way to the first couple of pics in this link http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp where it has the thin slats of wood glued around the blade.

I have gone the chisel out the core etc. but would like to try this other way, now I don't know to much about scabbards and I presume they were still being produced at this time (15th C) in both ways.

In the thread it has shown the use of poplar wood, now it's not that easy to attain in these here parts, so I was wondering could you get away with using something like 2ply plywood? would it have any leeching effect on the blade etc.?
What other sort of wood would do the same trick, even if it was taken down to quite thin for soaking bending?

Also say if I were to use ply and gave it a light soaking and put it around the blade (glued, tied etc like in the link) how long would one have to leave the blade within the core? until it dries outright?

Cheers.
View user's profile Send private message
Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,522

PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The problem with a 2 ply wood is that half the grain will be fighting you, thats the point of thin wooden slats, that the grain runs down the length of the blade.

You could try dampening the ply and effectively forming it.

Tod

www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
www.instagram.com/todsworkshop
www.facebook.com/TodTodeschini
www.youtube.com/user/todsstuff1
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2015 1:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, yea I had thought that I may be fighting an up hill battle with ply.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri 11 Sep, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Scabbards         Reply with quote

Hi Jimi

You can get poplar in NZ : check out TradeMe and places like that for poplar sarking. I got a few linear metres a few years ago. If you can access a bandsaw or thicknesser , you can cut it to thickness

cheers
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I checked a timber reference and saw that Beech is commonly grown there for lumber. I would actually rather have beech than popular as it is tougher (was often used for bodies of wood working planes) and nicer to work. If you can buy slats of beech, it is only mildly acidic (is actually pretty random depending upon soil, but was used for mixed wood and metal tools after all), and should be a good choice.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
View user's profile Send private message
Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep, 2015 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cheers I'll look into that.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Sun 13 Sep, 2015 7:40 pm    Post subject: wood for scabbard         Reply with quote

I'd be very careful about the acidity; i made the mistake of using ordinary wood glue previously and even though i thought I'd sealed it away from the blade by wax coating the interior of the slats it still gave me corrosion issues.

I've since found a neutral pH glue but i was surprised by the level of impact

cheers
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Eduardo Fontenla
Industry Professional



Location: Argentina
Joined: 11 Nov 2006

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon 14 Sep, 2015 4:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I use wood Kiri (Paulownia tomentosa) http://www.nzwood.co.nz/learning-centre/paulownia/
The wood is free of knots, it is easy to work, resists cracking and kinks and weighs three times less than conventional wood. And it does not resins that can attack the blade
Regards

Dum vivimus, vivamus!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,886

PostPosted: Mon 14 Sep, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Heed Mike's warning about glue. I used original Titebond wood glue (red label) for years without trouble, then switched to the blue label because I couldn't find the original. Spent a lot of time on a nice scabbard core only to discover that it was corroding the blade. If I hadn't stored the blade in the core during a delay in production I would have completed the project before realizing that it was a complete loss. Side by side tests of these glues on a piece of scrap steel confirmed the problem. Overnight, the blue label dot of glue turned the blade very dark gray. The red label dot of glue had very little effect (but some). That was an extreme test--nobody applies wet glue to bare steel and expects good results--but it made clear that the red label Titebond is a good choice.

The good news is that we can dispense with salt/vinegar solutions, etc. to achieve an aged effect on steel. Just coat it with blue label Titebond overnight and peel it off the next day to reveal the new finish.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Mon 14 Sep, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Wood for scabbards         Reply with quote

Thanks Eduardo. Good to know about other options.

I like Sean's idea about the ageing Big Grin. I'll now have to see what the green label (Titebond III) does out of curiosity

regards
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Tomek Kowmal Ciupinski
Industry Professional



Location: Lodz, Poland
Joined: 16 Jul 2015

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello.
This is the old way, but good.
I use alder. Good wood to work.
The blade will not rust.
Incised drawing the blade. I work an old chisel grandfather.
Sandpaper and ready for the project.
How to someone useful, I'll be happy.
Regards












[/img]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Wed 16 Sep, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Handy tools Tomek! I do keep an eye out on building sites for certain woods.
View user's profile Send private message
Eduardo Fontenla
Industry Professional



Location: Argentina
Joined: 11 Nov 2006

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2015 8:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It seems a very good tool Tomek!

Dum vivimus, vivamus!
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tomek Kowmal Ciupinski
Industry Professional



Location: Lodz, Poland
Joined: 16 Jul 2015

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
Primitive tools they learn patience.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,144

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2015 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tomek Kowmal Ciupinski wrote:
Thanks guys.
Primitive tools they learn patience.


Yes, very nice looking tools and it also suggest the best way to hollow out the halves of the scabbard by first creating a shallow groove and then working one's way in after carefully establishing the outer limits of the hollowed out wood.

Just a question for everybody: How about plain ordinary pine wood ? is that wood acidic or prone to creating rust ?

How about sealing the inside of the scabbard with some sort of waterproof finish so the the steel would never touch the wood directly ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu 17 Sep, 2015 9:10 pm    Post subject: Wood for scabbards         Reply with quote

Hi Jean

I tried pine but it caused tarnishing, it can be acidic.

I have used shellac to seal the inside of a scabbard. A word of caution, let it dry REALLY well first. I let it dry once but the odor was still there and it caused rusting. It needs a good week.

Now I just use beeswax as an interior sealant, works really well if you work several layers into the wood.

cheers
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Tomek Kowmal Ciupinski
Industry Professional



Location: Lodz, Poland
Joined: 16 Jul 2015

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2015 12:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm sorry for the mistakes, I write with tlanslator.

Wood freshly felled trees European species has a pH in the range pH 3,3-6,5.
On the reaction of trees is affected by many factors, eg. Species, habitat, soil pH, the amount of downloadable sample from a tree, tree age, season, etc.

Genre - pH value

hard oak tree - 3.94
ordinary pine tree - 4.15
white oak tree - 4.96
birch tree - 5.07
alder tree - 5.13
beech tree - 5.45
elm tree - 6.74
Poplar Tree - 7.36

Information from the - uzytkowanielasu.pl

Old recipe perform sword scabbards says 6 - 10 layers of beeswax.
Mike has a very good method.

Regards Tomek
My work - http://www.facebook.com/tomek.kowmal
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Mike O'Hara




Location: New Zealand
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: wood for scabbard         Reply with quote

Many thanks for Tomek for looking up those pH values, his answers give you a really good reason people have used polar for cores. It is slightly alkaline. Elm looks promising as well.

I found this link with a quick search

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/journals/conserv...with-wood/

The beeswax method certainly seems to work, I've not had any significant corrosion issues since using it

regards
mike

MIke O'Hara
Location: Plimmerton, New Zealand
View user's profile Send private message
Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Mon 21 Sep, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips and info guys.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Wood for a scabbard?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum