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Isaac D Rainey




Location: Evansville Indiana
Joined: 29 Sep 2012

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PostPosted: Sat 05 Sep, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject: Japanese weapons in Dutch art?         Reply with quote

Matt Easton in one of his recent videos (link below) claimed that Japanese weapons can be seen in Dutch art of the 17th century. Does anyone know which paintings depict Japanese weapons? I am not debating whether or not this is true, I just want to see these paintings out of curiosity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-3bMsjOv5E
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Tom L.




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 20 Jun 2008

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat 05 Sep, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the better known paintings is probably Harmen Steenwykk's still like painting: "An Allegory of the Vanities of Human Life." A wakizashi is featured amongst a clump of objects of interest.

Although not a Dutch painting, if you look up Sir Neil O'Neill, you will find a portrait of him with a samurai armour lying next to him.

Google both and you will easily find images.

I have a cunning plan Mr. B.
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Sep, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not Japanese, but Javanese-- in Rembrandt's painting of the blinding of Samson, the Philistines are using a kris dagger to do the job. Pretty accurately depicted, from what I recall.

Here-- (warning, slightly gory image)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/1636_Rembrandt_Die_Blendung_Simsons_anagoria.JPG/800px-1636_Rembrandt_Die_Blendung_Simsons_anagoria.JPG

Note also the unusual form of the spear-head, possibly also Javanese, and the squared-off end of the scabbard that the spear-wielding guard is bearing, though that's too indistinct to really tell much about it.

EDIT: Just to be safe I'll just leave the picture as a hyperlink...
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Sep, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"This sword is from Sri Lanka and is called a ‘Kastane’. Examples of these can be seen in the Oriental Gallery floor 5 of the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds.

It was a very fashionable sword and showed how rich and powerful Alexander [Popham] was. New trading links with South Asia and the Far East meant that objects from these areas were highly sought after."



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Sep, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Detailed discussion of the O'Neill portrait: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=3567
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep, 2015 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Faulk wrote:
Not Japanese, but Javanese-- in Rembrandt's painting of the blinding of Samson, the Philistines are using a kris dagger to do the job. Pretty accurately depicted, from what I recall.


Very intriguing -- I hadn't noticed that detail before, despite having lived in Java for many years. But on closer inspection the handle of the dagger seems to be carved in the shape of a human figure, which isn't very common in Java and tends to be more closely associated with Bali (the much smaller island next door and a more popular international tourism destination today). So it might be Balinese instead of Javanese although the difference is probably splitting hairs to people who aren't actually from the region.


Quote:
Note also the unusual form of the spear-head, possibly also Javanese, and the squared-off end of the scabbard that the spear-wielding guard is bearing, though that's too indistinct to really tell much about it.


There are spearheads with a similar shape in Java, but in this case I'm not entirely convinced that it has to specifically be from Java rather than being some weird example of a European spearhead or something from an entirely different part of the globe altogether. What makes me particularly doubtful is the shape of the shaft -- as I recall, shorter Javanese spear shafts (i.e. not the European-influenced pikes that were so ubiquitous in 18th- and early 19th-century Javanese warfare) are either thinner or more tapered than that. Of course, on the other hand, the bulges on the collar just beneath the spearhead do look rather Javanese. Compare to some polearms preserved in the local history museum in Jakarta.



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