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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 31 Jan, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Weapons that made Britain: The Sword         Reply with quote

I've been looking for this program since it debuted and finally caught it tonight on the Military History Channel.

I have to say that I was impressed by the quality of the production. Mike Loades did an excellent job of presenting the European medieval sword in a very professional and academic manner. I've usually been very disappointed in the weapons related programs presented on the History Channel. This one was a nice change of pace.

Mr. Loades gave an excellent overview of the longswords use, ala Hans Talhoffer. A nice presentation was given illustrating pattern welding manufacture and it's reasons for being. It was also nice to see quality equipment being used instead of the normal cheap trash that these programs normally display. The lowest quality swords used were Del Tins and these were used for blunt sparring demonstrations. Proper wooden wasters were also used for the training sessions as well. Several very nice swords from Raven Arms were used, both in a cut & thrust test as well as a bash-a-helmet-test. The helmet that was chosen for the test looked to be of equal quality to the swords, and it was painful to watch such a nice example being damaged. One thing that impressed me was the fact that, after these tests were completed, Mr. Loades was quick to point out that they did not serve as definitive proof of anything but were simply done as a broad reference. That one point was a breath of fresh air when compared to the attitudes of far too many academics and practitioners in the field.

I really couldn't find fault with the program, in fact, I'd say that it was the best television program I've seen on the subject.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Mike Capanelli




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 6:01 am    Post subject: ........................................         Reply with quote

ohh well i missed it again. i caught the tail end of that program when it first aired. it looked great. he also has done some really good sword and buckler demonstrations. cant wait till it airs again!!!!! all in all the whole series has been great.
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Caught it about two weeks ago and was really impressed Big Grin

This is the type of quality presentation we've all been waiting for. I hope programs like this can open some new doors for the western martial arts community as well.

Anyone know what swords Mike tested during the program? I'm going to quess that they were from Raven Wink


What's funny and sad is that when we (ARMA) conducted such tests we were condemmed for it Evil

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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Gary Venable




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 6:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So the name of the show was: "Weapons that made Britain: The Sword"

I will have to check it out. Thank God for Tivio

I to have been disapointed in the shoddy academics used on the Hitler Channel, I mean History Channel. Some time it seems like they take a point in history and say ok what is the most hairbrained theory we can find on this subject and then they present that theory as fact. Arrrgh....

Some men yell at the TV during sports programs... me I yell at the History Channel. WTF?!

Gary
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On Sunday I saw "Weapons that made Britain: Armour". I had similar feeling that the program was great. Many misconceptions were dispelled, and it was worth it just to see the Wallace collection basinet being put on a person (Mike Loades is a lucky @#$#) .

I found only two minor disagreements with the literature:

1. A famous effigy with straps on the side showing under the surcoat was claimed that these buckles represented a "coat of armour" with steel plates. Claude Blair actually contends that at the time of the effigy (~1330) there was no indication of steel plates being used in this manner and he actually argues that this is a boiled leather cuirass. Further more the protection was not part of the surcoat, (poncho style) as was the case with most coat of armour protection. A minor disagreement none the less.

2. The impression was given that most complete sets of armour were custom made for the individual. There is A LOT of evidence that suggests the opposite: that armour was mass produced. Yes, many important folks DID have their armour tailored specifically for them, but that does not seem to have been the rule. This was not Mike Loades'es mistake but a curator's overly enthusiastic explanation about certain armour pieces. A minor but misleading statement.

Other than that the program was superb. It explained mail, heat treatment, armour weights, etc......Very nice and a pleasant surprize.

Now I must see the "WTMB: sword"

Alexi


Last edited by Alexi Goranov on Tue 01 Feb, 2005 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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William Goodwin




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just checked the tv listings and it looks like the show will air again tonight @ midnight EST.

Bill

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got to see a series of them one morning some time back.

I believe there were Sword, Armor, Sheld, Longbow, and perhaps some other versions (foggy memory) of the show that the History channel ran back to back to back. I was loaded on painkillers post surgery so I don't rember all of what they talked about, overload at that moment.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
What's funny and sad is that when we (ARMA) conducted such tests we were condemmed for it


I have to be honest Gary, there were a few points in this program that did raise my eyebrows a bit. Especially when Mr. Loades and his sparring partner charged full-tilt at each other on horseback while demonstrating thrusting techniques and disarms, without any sort of safety gear. It was well presented, but I wouldn't have wanted to do it. Big Grin

Yes, the swords he used in the bash-a-helmet demonstration, and the ones used in the block of clay test, were Raven's. I particularly like the falchion. That's always been one of my favorite Raven patterns.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus


Last edited by Patrick Kelly on Tue 01 Feb, 2005 10:10 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are running on History International, too, on Sunday evenings at 7:00 and 11:00 PM CST. I've seen (and taped!) the shows on Armour, Shield, Lance and Longbow. All are outstanding. Can't wait to see the sword program. I'm not sure what they're going to do after that. Axe? SMLE? Haggis? Maggie Thatcher?
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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David McElrea




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 1:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Quote:
Maggie Thatcher?


Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud
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William Goodwin




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David McElrea wrote:
Sean Flynt wrote:
Quote:
Maggie Thatcher?


Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud


And those Holy Haggis Handgrenades were pretty lethal as well......run away,runaway......... WTF?!

Bill

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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Quote:
What's funny and sad is that when we (ARMA) conducted such tests we were condemmed for it


I have to be honest Gary, there were a few points in this program that did raise my eyebrows a bit. Especially when Mr. Loades and his sparring partner charged full-tilt at each other on horseback while demonstrating thrusting techniques and disarms, without any sort of safety gear. It was well presented, but I wouldn't have wanted to do it. Big Grin


Yea, I wouldn't have wanted to do that either Eek!


Yes, the swords he used in the bash-a-helmet demonstration, and the ones used in the block of clay test, were Raven's. I particularly like the falchion. That's always been one of my favorite Raven patterns.



Those clean crisp lines just give them away don't they?. I figured they'd promote the local guys anyway. There was a few Del Tins in there too if I remember correctly.

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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Joel Chesser




Location: Oklahoma
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw it a few months ago on the history channel and was really impressed, i would love to get this thing on dvd, it was great. i was wondering if anyone else had seen it, glad i wasn't the only one. Big Grin
..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If somebody find out if it can be orderd in some way on DVD, please inform us!! Didn´t see it and would very much like to see it...

Martin

Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I second that request: Finding it and related programs on DVD would be great as I am "Cable challenged" No cable ! And our cable companies don't always have what we want up here due to T.V. "Government Regulators" deciding for us what specialty channels we can get.

Protecting our culture from to much foreign (U.S.) content! (Sarcasm intended ........ LOL. )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gary Grzybek




Location: Stillwater N.J.
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Feb, 2005 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin Wallgren wrote:
If somebody find out if it can be orderd in some way on DVD, please inform us!! Didn´t see it and would very much like to see it...

Martin



It's unlikely that it's available on DVD yet but I'll be watching for it.

The other program I'd like to have is "Arms in Action" but is only available on VHS.

Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
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