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John Hertel




Location: Netherlands
Joined: 29 Jul 2015

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jul, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Arms and clothes cavalry in 1580 until 1650         Reply with quote

I have a question? We started two years ago a re-enactment group in the Netherlands with horses (www.cavalerie1588.nl). Our name is Cavalerie1588. After two years we want to be a bit more professional. What kind of arms was the Cavalry wearing? (Rapier or 17th Century Tower Hanger) and what clothes are they wearing (buff coat, helms, breastplate) and what does the horse wearing) I know it is a lot of questions, but i hope that some can help me.
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Wed 29 Jul, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Arms and clothes cavalry in 1580 until 1650         Reply with quote

John Hertel wrote:
I have a question? We started two years ago a re-enactment group in the Netherlands with horses (www.cavalerie1588.nl). Our name is Cavalerie1588. After two years we want to be a bit more professional. What kind of arms was the Cavalry wearing? (Rapier or 17th Century Tower Hanger) and what clothes are they wearing (buff coat, helms, breastplate) and what does the horse wearing) I know it is a lot of questions, but i hope that some can help me.


It largely depends on the type of cavalry troop you try to portray. I'd say the range of 1580 to 1650 is a bit large a lot of change in both military and civilian fashion happened during those years so I suggest you narrow it down to about 20 or 30 years.

If you are portraying a cuirassier or lancer you'd probably opt for 3/4th armor with either two pistols or a lance and a sword as sidearm. However too get a proper reproduction of this would entail a significant investment.

To get an idea of what those guys looked like on the field:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Sebastiaan_Vrancx_-_Kriegsbild.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Sebastiaan_Vrancx_-_Reitergefecht_am_Fu%C3%9F_eines_H%C3%BCgels.jpg

Both are dated to 1601-1615.

Another type of troop depicted are the mounted harquebusiers who appear to be armed with a buff coat (with out without breastplate) and either a visible helmet or hat which could possible hide a secrete helmet.

A rapier (the thing long sword) is more or less a civilian sword and not one suited for warfare. Common sword during the period were one handed and had a complex hilt like the rapier which might contribute to confusing the two.

I am afraid I cannot help you much more beyond this because I never put any serious research in it.

There is a 1616 German cavalry manual you could consult for a few of the cavalry related things. It is illustrated and depicts the four troop types he covers but to what extent the pictures usable I cannot tell.

Johann Jacob von Wallhausen: Kriegskunst zu Pferdt. Darinnen gelehrt werden die initia und fundamenta der Cavallerie, aller vier Theylen: als Lantzierers, Kührissieriers, Carabiners und Dragoons, was von einem jeden Theyl erfordert wird, was sie prästiren können sampt deren exercitien. Newe schöne Invetionen etlicher batailen mit der Cavallery ins Werkzu stellen. Mit dargestellten Beweistumpen, was an den edlen Kriegskunsten gelegen und deren Fürtrefflichkeiten uber alle Kunst und Wissenschaften,


Another book of his has been published on google books for free.

https://books.google.de/books?id=MNNBAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false

Pictures are in the second half of the book if you are looking to get a clue what it is about. There is some cool stuff in it and stuff that isn't legal today.

Here is a really good replica of a 1590 set of armor.

http://www.gotscha.nl/nl-mauritsharnas.htm
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John Hertel




Location: Netherlands
Joined: 29 Jul 2015

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for your answer. We operate in the years 1620 until 1650, and we are light cavalry. About the sword could it be a Cavalier Rapier or does thy have other swords?
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Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Hertel wrote:
Thank you for your answer. We operate in the years 1620 until 1650, and we are light cavalry. About the sword could it be a Cavalier Rapier or does thy have other swords?


The original on which the Arms and Armor Cavalier Rapier http://www.myArmoury.com/review_aa_cav.html is based is dated to 1620. You could also have a look at Walloon sword replicas which start appearing around the mid 17th century: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13795

I'm not sure if the later are wholly suited to cavalry use, I'm afraid I haven't researched the 80 or 30 years war. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
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David Evans




Location: Rotherham, West Riding
Joined: 09 Sep 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: Dutch Horse         Reply with quote

PM sent as there's a hell of a lot to cover :-)
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Thu 10 Sep, 2015 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If Daniel Staberg and Gordon Frye don't show up and chime in anytime soon, go look up their usernames in the search feature and try pestering them through PM or e-mails. Their old posts are worth looking up too.
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