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M Lankin





Joined: 01 Jul 2015

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jul, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: 16th century close helmets for foot combat?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I am very interested in the 16th century knightly harness, especially the close helms. I was wondering if these were ever used by dismounted knights or other heavily armored soldiers and if so what they would look like. I would like to put together a 16th century harness intended for foot combat (SCA) some time in the future and I would like to know some options for helmets. The close helm is my favorite style of helmet looks-wise but I believe it was primarily used for mounted combat.

Can anyone help me find a style of 16th century close helm more optimized for foot combat? Does such a thing exist?

Thanks



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Or maybe this? [ Download ]
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Theo Squires





Joined: 23 Jul 2012

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2015 12:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, unless I'm mistaken, the close helm was used in the 16th century as part of armours for tournaments on foot as well as for mounted combat. I've several photos of close helmets and their respective suits from 1540-1610. Some are definitely for use on foot. For foot combat in tournaments, heavier additional plates were often fitted to one side of the armour and the armour was only half length as the combat was fought at a waist-high barrier.

Another thing to consider is that important people often had garnitures of armour which several different options for field and tournament. Cavalrymen often wore open-faced (with optional falling-buff) burgonets in the mid-late 16th century instead of close helms. Diagrams of these garnitures, for example one by Michel Witz the Younger (1560), shows that the close helm was used on foot and for tournaments, while the burgonet was used on horse in the battle. Of course, for non-knightly soldiers, morions and other helmets were common on foot.

Here's an album of mainly 16th century harnesses with close helms, dating from 1540-1610. 1500-1540 they wore armets, which are admittedly quite similar. When in the 16th are you most interested in? Imgur album, 1540-1610
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Vasilly T





Joined: 02 Dec 2014

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2015 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Theo Squires wrote:
For foot combat in tournaments, heavier additional plates were often fitted to one side of the armour and the armour was only half length as the combat was fought at a waist-high barrier.

I must add that it's not a general rule though. Because we can see full plate armour for tournament fights, such as various tonlet-armours and Henry VIII's famous foot combat armour.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

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PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Like these in Der Weisskunig?
WLB Cod.hist.fol. 271, fo.88v
http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/sammlungen/sa...age%5D=184



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M Lankin





Joined: 01 Jul 2015

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2015 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice gallery, Theo. I would say I'm most interested in mid to late 16th century armor, around the time that the close helm and burgonet were in full use. I'm also interested in some early 17th century armor like the Savoyard burgonet, although it's too late in period for the SCA.

I don't usually see very many 16th century or other late period kits in SCA heavy combat. The primary interest is in earlier periods I imagine. I think it's most likely because it can be done very cheaply whereas I've seen burgonets and close helms go for a minimum of $800.

Not something I can afford now, but I would really like to have a 16th century kit someday. I guess it just gives me more time to research Happy

Here's an illustration of a cuirasser. Did they actually wear close helms on the battlefield?



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M Lankin





Joined: 01 Jul 2015

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jul, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
Like these in Der Weisskunig?
WLB Cod.hist.fol. 271, fo.88v
http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/sammlungen/sa...age%5D=184


Yes, kind of. What's the date on those?
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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Location: upstate NY
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jul, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, cuirassiers often wore close helms.
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Jeffrey Hildebrandt
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jul, 2015 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 16th century close helmets for foot combat?         Reply with quote

M Lankin wrote:

Can anyone help me find a style of 16th century close helm more optimized for foot combat? Does such a thing exist?


The first photo you posted (one of 12 matching armours ordered by Christian I of Saxony from Anton Peffenhauser, 1590) was of an armour specifically designed for fighting on foot over the barrier, which is probably as good a 16th C analog as you will find for your purpose.

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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

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PostPosted: Mon 06 Jul, 2015 12:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M Lankin wrote:
Mart Shearer wrote:
Like these in Der Weisskunig?
WLB Cod.hist.fol. 271, fo.88v
http://digital.wlb-stuttgart.de/sammlungen/sa...age%5D=184


Yes, kind of. What's the date on those?


circa 1513

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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Jul, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

there is a good hundred and more years between that early woodcut and the civil war cuirassier, a lot happens to armour in between. If I had to chose the best to fight in then the Peffenhauser, or its Greenwich equivalent, would be the epitome for the noblemas foot armour. For the more soldierly then Martin Bavin has one on on ebay here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/English-closed-helm...2c9c2864cf

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