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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Scale armor in the 15th century?         Reply with quote

I'm aware of period iconography of scale armor being used in the 14th century. I'm unaware of seeing scale armor at all in the 15th century. Out of curiosity, is anyone aware of any examples, either existing or through iconography?
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Mart Shearer




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the early 15th century it's not unusual to find scale skirts, sabatons, or aventails. Are you looking for complete scale body armors instead?

http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi02308g13a.jpg

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 12:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
In the early 15th century it's not unusual to find scale skirts, sabatons, or aventails. Are you looking for complete scale body armors instead?

http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi02308g13a.jpg


Actually, that's exactly what I was looking for. Happy How late do we see these kinds of defenses? Particularly scale faulds like the one you linked to?

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Mart Shearer




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At least to mid-century. Styles really start changing when sallets get popular, and I haven't done as much research in the later 15th century.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3932/10786/


The desire for doing things in the antique style (Polish, "Sarmatian"-style, scale armors into the 17th century springs to mind) gives some odd constructions like this late 16th century scale-covered peascod breast -


I'm sure I've seen some steel breastplates embossed with scale patterns too, so interpretation of statuary and manuscripts can be challenging.

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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 4:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart, is that a steel breastplate covered in bone scales? Looks beautiful.
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Mart Shearer




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://www.hermitage.nl/en/tentoonstellingen/alexander_de_grote/hoogtepunten.htm

Picture caption says ivory, description says bone plaques. Which is correct? Perhaps carved ivory and bone scales?

Quote:
Breastplate from a cuirass, Italy, late 16th century, Steel, ivory, forged, carved

This steel breastplate is covered with round bone platelets and (lion) masks. The soldier in the central portrait wears a helmet with a crest in the form of a mythical creature, the hydra. The cuirass imitates scale armour, which was used from antiquity.


And an odd one in the Stibbert in Florence:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/d_a_biggs/17143135460/in/album-72157649967970943/

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Michael Curl




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PostPosted: Wed 10 Jun, 2015 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.amazon.com/Armourers-Medieval-Craf...+armourers

The cover of this book has a depiction in which the cuirass on the right has a scale fauld.

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Mark Griffin




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PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Stibbert one is a one piece steel breastplate that's had repousse scales put in, its not seperate scales.
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Richard Miller




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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2015 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Picture caption says ivory, description says bone...


Ivory and bone can be interchangeable terms. Whale bone is considered ivory as is tusk and tooth from other mammals. The only calcified material that comes from mammals never referred to as ivory is horn or antler.
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Mark Griffin




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PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun, 2015 1:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And if you wanted a helmet to with that scale peascod....


 Attachment: 54.51 KB
1f76f7cedf3c39f3c17822b5fa453741.jpg


Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Heath Barlin





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PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 2:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gla...load/21/22

Not 15th (rather thought to be 16th) but interesting for reference.
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Jasper B.




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PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 2:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
https://www.hermitage.nl/en/tentoonstellingen/alexander_de_grote/hoogtepunten.htm

Picture caption says ivory, description says bone plaques. Which is correct? Perhaps carved ivory and bone scales?


In the Dutch version of the website, the description reads (italics mine):
Quote:
Borststuk van een kuras, ItaliŽ, eind 16de eeuw, Staal, been, gesmeed, gesneden, © State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg

Dit stalen borststuk is bedekt met ronde benen plaatjes en afbeeldingen van (leeuwen)maskers. Op het centrale portret draagt de soldaat een helm met een kam in de vorm van een mythisch wezen, de hydra. De kuras imiteert een geschubd pantser, sinds de oudheid een bekend type harnas.


The Dutch word 'been' means bone and won't be used to mean ivory (='ivoor' in Dutch). In other words, the breastplate is made of 'steel and bone, forged and cut'.

J.B.
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