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Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr, 2015 11:41 pm    Post subject: Backswords with FingerRings         Reply with quote

Hope this is in the right section, apologies if it isn't.
I have a itch starting for a new sword. My last one was a great big honking two hander, so looking for something a little more nimble. I find myself increasingly drawn to of a cuttoe/briquette/cutlas blades, and love the look of mortuary hilt swords, but I have a question.
I have a bad habit of fingering the cross on single handed swords, including those without the hilt architecture to support it (and have had a few nasty injuries re-enacting that should have cured me of this habit), I just don't feel comfortable unless I have my finger curled over the cross. Rather than do the sensible thing and learn to grip single handers properly, I am wondering if anyone has any examples of complex hilted backswords or single edged curved European swords that are set up for the index finger to go over the cross.
Pretty pictures a bonus Happy
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E.B. Erickson
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Location: Thailand
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr, 2015 4:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one. This is German from the last half of the 1500s, and has a 41" de blade, but there's no reason why a back blade couldn't be mounted.


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Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr, 2015 4:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is both very interesting and quite pretty, thanks for the image!
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E.B. Erickson
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PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr, 2015 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another type - this is a hand and a half hilt, and both back and broadsword blades are common on these.

You might also want to check out Swiss sabers.

And, there are a few examples of English rapier hilts ca. 1620-30 that have back and broadsword blades.

Schiavona could also be mounted with backsword blades.



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Radovan Geist




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PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr, 2015 11:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It depends on period you´re looking for. Here´s another piece from mid 1500s - something which could probably be called "cut-and-thrust" in our modern terminology.
But there are also earlier types; check this thread for some very interesting pictures: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=22657

as for single-edged pieces, again there´s a great variety, but check for example some German "dussacks": http://www.myArmoury.com/review_dt5174.html
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David Cooper




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 2:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are not too bothered about it being a backsword then what about the Albion Condottiere?
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Nat Lamb




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, I *love* the look of dussacks, very much the sort of thing I am thinking about, but all the ones I have seen images of seem to have guards like the one you linked to. Despite having a finger ring above the cross (or bellow, can never work out which is meant to be which) the set up of the shell part of the guard would prevent one from placing the finger over the arms of the cross.
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E.B. Erickson
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 7:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another type of Germanic basket hilt that allows you to put your finger over the cross. These exist with broadsword, backsword, and curved saber blades. Pommels can be of various types, but the most common one is the flattened pyramid.


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another hilt similar to what ElJay posted above with a single-edged blade. This type of sword is a hand-and-a-half sword, however, as mentioned by ElJay. These hilts are mounted on various types of blades, both single- and double-edged and often of Type XIX.


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 3:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If being singled-edged isn't a critical point for you, have you considered the types of hilts as found on the Albion Condottiere, Machiavelli, Doge? These types of hilts were found on (modified) Type XIX blades with a thick ricasso. They are robust blades, stiff and agile and the hilts provide a good amount of hand protection.


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Similar to Albion's Doge

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Similar to Albion's Doge

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Similar to Albion's Machiavelli

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Somewhat similar to Albion's Machiavelli

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Hilt similar to Albion's Condottiere, but of hand-and-a-half proportion

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some really nice swords there, Nathan, especially the German(?) hand-and-a-half, and the bastard XIX with finger ring. I wonder If that last was the inspiration for Del Tin's DT2151
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 01 May, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't quite tell if this is of hand-and-a-half proportion or not. If it is, the hilt is small and the second hand would mostly be grasping the pommel. It would offer a good amount of protection to a finger curled over the cross-guard.

I don't know any details about this sword.



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 01 May, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another hilt style similar to Albion's Machiavelli sword along with two other single-handed sword with finger-rings.


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