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Leelund K





Joined: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 2:59 am    Post subject: Etsy Scabbard         Reply with quote

Does anyone have experience with these?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/203880914/authentic-leather-scabbard-sheaththe?ref=related-6

He also has two cheaper models. I'm really curious.

Leelund
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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And are those leather chapes historical?
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 479

PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark T wrote:
And are those leather chapes historical?


As far as we know, no.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The example actually looks rather decent - except for the "chape", as others have said.....
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Leelund K





Joined: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd be surprised if the chapes were historical. They seem very late twentieth/early twenty first century haha. The leatherwork looks great, though especially at that price point. I wonder how functional they are. I dont want any scratches or blade damage. The chape looks like it would be ready to replace.
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Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Along with the chape, the black leather looks ahistorical. I doubt it is "veg" tanned and according to Matt Easton, black dyed leather was a rare thing before modern times.

That being said, the maker does do custom work. So maybe these problems could be worked out.

Travis
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Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ćthelmearc
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also the distance between the mouth of the scabbard and the belt is double what it should be.

Whoever made the scabbard has some great leather-working talent, sadly, wasted talent.
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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar, 2015 11:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
Whoever made the scabbard has some great leather-working talent, sadly, wasted talent.


Or just needing a gentle nudge in the right direction? Happy

They wouldn't be the first craftsperson - let alone scabbard-maker - who has had to do some learning, as well as alter their product to be more what a certain portion of their market would want to buy ...

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Leelund K





Joined: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would like to draw your attention the price point.

Is anyone offering historically accurate scabbards at under $200 shipped? These scabbards are clearly targeted at a budget buyer. For anything, historical accuracy starts at a higher price point. Not everyone is willing to pay top dollar to get every small detail right- especially details that don't affect functionality. To many sword buyers, the difference between $200 and $700 for a scabbard is significant.

I think most people would rather spend money collecting more swords than have every sword "scabbarded" in a work of art. I think more scabbards in this price range (if you look at his site, his basic scabbard is around $100) will let certain people (me included) scabbard swords that previously would have just been kept in a box or on a display stand.

My worry is if this scabbard will work as a scabbard: will it scratch my blade? how snug or loose will the fit be given that I'm only sending the blade's dimensions, etc. At under $200, I think the details are more than good enough.

That being said, I'm sure things like mouth to belt distance can be easily fixed with some feedback! I might contact the guy and point him here.

The curiosity is getting to me!

Leelund
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brown one is even less.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdvogFyZZM

I'm in, for 150 I'll take a leather chappe, I mostly need something the keep my live blades from getting dinged in the trunk, and if I can wear it too, that's a bonus.

I kid of like the idea of that chappe too, if it brushes a wall it's less likely to scrape, and it would be quieter.

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They're being advertised as 'authentic'. That's misleading at best.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Leelund K





Joined: 29 Nov 2006

Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think all of the scabbards come in five different colors. The one with the suspension system doesn't have to be black.

I contacted the guy to ask him about his scabbards. I'll report back with any pertinent information.

Matthew P. Adams wrote:

I'm in, for 150 I'll take a leather chappe, I mostly need something the keep my live blades from getting dinged in the trunk, and if I can wear it too, that's a bonus.


My thoughts exactly. Wearing swords around the house is oddly satisfying. Haha
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Harry Marinakis




Location: Kingdom of Ćthelmearc
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PostPosted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 6:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Leelund K wrote:
...Is anyone offering historically accurate scabbards at under $200 shipped?..

No one. Not even the guy on Etsy.
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Antal László




Location: Lymington, Hampshire, UK
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 4:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I know this guy personally. He is a very good leatherworker with over 15 years of experience. I have a wallet made by him. He was approached some time ago by Peter Regenyei (some of you might know his work, he makes training swords) to make a few scabbards. I think these scabbards on etsy are the result of those initial attempts.
He only uses vegetable tanned leathers from England and Itally and I think his work is definitelly worth it. The wooden cores are made by someone else so I can't comment on that.
He doesn't claim to be a scabbard maker, his expertise is traditional hungarian styles and shapes but he always seems to be up for learning new skills. He does custom work, so I'm sure problems with his scabbards could be worked out.

This is his facebook page, although it isn't sword oriented, there's some amazing craftsmanship going on
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Varju-Leather/430189220425075?sk=timeline
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J. Hargis




Location: Pacific Palisades, California
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Antal said:
Quote:
He doesn't claim to be a scabbard maker, his expertise is traditional hungarian styles and shapes but he always seems to be up for learning new skills. He does custom work, so I'm sure problems with his scabbards could be worked out.
I'm in too.
Quite a value and it appears he is open to suggestions.
Perhaps this is a shot across the bow of some the higher priced makers. Nonetheless, it appears he's on to something.

Jon

A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
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Terry Thompson




Location: Suburbs of Wash D.C.
Joined: 17 Sep 2010

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They look pretty good for the price. But I think if you just want something functional to protect the blade, you probably don't need to spend half of that. Not sure if they still offer it, but Kult of Athena used to sell plain leather sheaths (no wooden core).
And you can make a wooden core for about $10-$20 in materials + a couple of days of sweat equity. It may not be pretty, but it will do the job of protecting the blade. And if you wanted, you could do the leather covering later.

IMO, If you are all thumbs with wood and/or leather though, $150 isn't a bad price for something functionally beneficial for protecting your investment and better than a plain wooden core.
-Terry
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Jim H




Location: Florida
Joined: 16 Mar 2015

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Question from a clueless newbie - What is wrong with this scabbard design? I don't care about the chape. What is wrong with the belt position. Where should it be and why? Going to get my first sword soon and I might be making my own scabbard or maybe even buying this one or something like it. It would be nice to know where the parts should all be to be functional. I am not that concerned about historical accuracy. I just want it to work. Thanks.
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Terry Thompson




Location: Suburbs of Wash D.C.
Joined: 17 Sep 2010

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To my eyes, the leather belt looks unnecessarily thick. Like he/she used a 10-13 oz. weight leather instead of a 5 to 8 oz.
And most belts mount forward starting just about an inch below the throat, because...that's all they need to sit at your hip. If you mount the belt lower (as is the case with the first scabbard pictured, which appears to be about 2.5-3" below the throat), then it either shifts the handle further up your trunk (closer to the armpit) and that creates for an awkward draw. Or you sling the belt much lower to compensate for the raised grip, putting the belt lower on your hips/butt; which can then lead to it falling down like a loose pair of pants.

2 or 3" may not be a big deal though. But then I'm reminded that a breastplate that is 2" too long for the wearer can be unbearably uncomfortable. Anyhow, it just looks odd with that style of belt harness mounted that low.

It's NOT unusual to see a 15th century style of belt harness mounted that low, but then the back belt is positioned that much further away so it tends to maintain the sword more horizontal than the style shown on the Etsy page.

But personally, I think it's a very nice looking scabbard and harness (except for the chape).
-Terry
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jim H wrote:
Question from a clueless newbie - What is wrong with this scabbard design? I don't care about the chape. What is wrong with the belt position. Where should it be and why? Going to get my first sword soon and I might be making my own scabbard or maybe even buying this one or something like it. It would be nice to know where the parts should all be to be functional. I am not that concerned about historical accuracy. I just want it to work. Thanks.


It's mostly a matter of minor details. It "looks" right to the un-tutored eye, which is because it's being made by one Happy

I imagine that it is a perfectly functional scabbard. It simply suffers when examined by people knowledgeable about the little things. As a starting point, it would be perfectly fine and better than most factory scabbards by far. As a proper "historically correct" scabbard it fails in a few areas, but honestly, it's not *that* bad for what appears to be good work by someone who isn't familiar with the necessary correct details. Perhaps he used leather chapes simply because he didn't have any metal ones available and the customer he made them for originally didn't care. Something like that.
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Johannes Zenker





Joined: 15 Sep 2014

Posts: 67

PostPosted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He and many other eastern European people tend to have most of their customers coming from a re-enactment background and thus less focused on being painstakingly historically accurate, but rather functional and "authentic looking", and I don't mean authentic to people who frequent myArmoury, but Jane and John Doe coming to a medieval/renaissance fair for probably the first time on their life.

In such a context a leather scabbard without a wooden core has the advantage that it does not break, especially when the sword is drawn (for example for a (semi-) choreographed fight). Having had one such breakage I will avoid putting blades that I carry on a fair into wood core scabbards again.
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