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Spenser T.




Location: West coast, Canada
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Irish Scian blade questions         Reply with quote

Hey,
I'm curious about the dagger called a scian/skean/sgian used by Irish Kerns in the middle ages.
I'm trying to find out two things:

1. Were these knives ever double edged? the only ones I've found were single.
2. Did they ever feature fullers of any kind?

Thank you
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 2:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well Froissart wrote this about the Irish.

"The Irish have pointed knives; with broad blades, sharp on both sides like a dart-head, with which they kill their enemies; but they never consider them as dead until they have cut their throats like sheep, opened their bellies and taken out their hearts, which they carry off with them, and some say, who are well acquainted with their manners, that they devour them as delicious morsels"

Éirinn go Brách
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
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Posts: 653

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 5:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
"The Irish have pointed knives; with broad blades, sharp on both sides like a dart-head, with which they kill their enemies; but they never consider them as dead until they have cut their throats like sheep, opened their bellies and taken out their hearts, which they carry off with them, and some say, who are well acquainted with their manners, that they devour them as delicious morsels"


OK...Next year I will tone down St. Pat's day then. Don't want things to escalate. Eek!



Arms and Armor did this very nice Irish Sgian as a custom job. It's double edged, but no fuller. It is "based on originals in the Irish National Museum. I'm sure Craig would tell you more about it if you asked him, although being a custom, they may have been working from specs the client supplied.

http://armor.com/custom937.html

Edited:
Whoops, I might have typed too soon. Check with Craig if it really is double edged. It might be similar to the River Shannon Skean, which is single edged.

http://www.myArmoury.com/nateb_dagg_ia_skean.html
http://www.wulflund.com/weapons/swords/other-...plica.html

As always, there is a lot of good info here about Irish arms, but when I was reading through it lately I didn't focus on skeans. have you done the search here?
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Kevin P Molloy




Location: USA
Joined: 17 Feb 2006

Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know of no double edge finds and scians are far from broad blades so I am skeptical of the Froissart quote. Can you give me the source Stephen? Also the Irish scians are well known for there flat back spine.
Kevin Patrick Molloy
"The Prince of Firceall of the Ancient Sword is O'Molloy of the Freeborn Name"... O'Dugain(d.1372AD)


Last edited by Kevin P Molloy on Thu 19 Mar, 2015 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://faculty.nipissingu.ca/muhlberger/FROISSART/IRELAND.HTM

Here is where I found the quote Kevin. I'll admit that this description does not come close to matching any of the surviving scians that I'm aware of, but perhaps this type of scian did exist in Froissart's day, and none have survived. Who knows?

Éirinn go Brách
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Spenser T.




Location: West coast, Canada
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Likes: 11 pages

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar, 2015 2:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just wanted to thank you guys for your help with this one.
Although this isn't completely certain, it appears scians were generally single edged and without fullers.
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