Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Unusual shield type Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Michael S. Rivet





Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject: Unusual shield type         Reply with quote

I know the role of art in arms and armor study is a complicated topic involving the artist's intentions, his expectations of his audience, the need to differentiate characters, and so on. So normally when I come across some unexpected weapon in period art I smile and take note but don't give it too much significance.

When I see the same thing pop up over and over again, though, I start to think maybe this is a real thing I should know more about. Case in point: Deeply curved, full-body, elliptical or oval shields wielded by armored figures in art from the 14th and 15th centuries. I've attached (or attempted to attach) two images showing this type. I know I've seen at least one other piece of art depicting a fully armored soldier, on foot, wielding a very similar shield but, alas, I did not save the image.

The first image is from 1410 to 1412 according to my very limited documentation and the latter is 14th century and, I believe, French.

Without having a name for this type of shield, I have no idea what to search for. Is anyone familiar with this type of shield? Are there extant examples? Documents describing them? Does the community have a term for this weapon?



 Attachment: 69.39 KB
14th century French (upload).jpg


 Attachment: 99.72 KB
1410 to 1412 (upload).jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 7:14 am    Post subject: Unusual shield type         Reply with quote

I have no clue on that type of shield.
Never seen a real one, though.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I'm not mistaken, I would say that's simply a representation of a dished kite shield with a boss. These were common-ish back in the Norman period as the boss was a holdover from the first millennium,

What is the context of the pictures? That is, the manuscripts they come from? If they're portraying historical events, someone may have decided to try and depict a more 'antique' version of the contemporary shields.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,302

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Faulk wrote:
What is the context of the pictures? That is, the manuscripts they come from? If they're portraying historical events, someone may have decided to try and depict a more 'antique' version of the contemporary shields.


That's what I was thinking. Could those be "Romans", from a Biblical story? Just a thought!

Matthew
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tim Jones




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 05 Nov 2013

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've seen them all over the place in manuscripts, but never any extant examples. I'll do some digging into the context, but I don't think they are seen solely in depictions of historical events.
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Jones




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 05 Nov 2013

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 11:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've just found this image. The reason I find it interesting is that the shield in the fore has the same decoration as those seen in the Maciejowski bible. There are two possible options:
Option 1:
They were in fact copying older texts, and just screwing it up. Just think about the images of elephants, which actually got more and more fantastical as time went on.
Option 2:
It is another branch in the evolution of the heater shield. I think I have seen just as many of the oddly shaped ones as "standard" models, and sometimes they appear in the same images.

I'd love it to be another type of actual shield that everyone has simply ignored, however, what we want to have happened is rarely what actually happened - this is something the Victorians failed to understand.....

View user's profile Send private message
Matt Easton




Location: Guildford, Surrey, UK.
Joined: 30 Jun 2004

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 18 Mar, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it's safe to say that these existed - they turn up in a LOT of 14th and 15th century art from a wide area of Western Europe. I don't think lack of surviving examples should cast any doubt on them, as so few shields survive from this period, relatively.
Schola Gladiatoria - www.fioredeiliberi.org
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria
Antique Swords: www.antique-swords.co.uk/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 153

PostPosted: Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I agree with Matt Easton.

Currently I'm struggling with Iberian shields terminology and typology of the XVth century, and there are about a dozen types without known surviving examples. I suspect that this type may be the "lesser pavises" so often mentioned.

If you are looking for more of them, depictions of sieges often show them used while going up a ladder, hold by the left hand.
http://www.soldiers-of-misfortune.com/galleri...sieges.htm
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Unusual shield type
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum