Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Military Police and HEMA training? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Rim Andries




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Military Police and HEMA training?         Reply with quote

This question popped up in my mind after reading that Mishael Lopes Cardozo (a dutch HEMA teacher who will soon make his debut in Game of Thrones) came to the aid of MP struggling to keep a crowd at bay. This wasn't his first collaboration with the police: he is known to give training courses to our guys in blue.

What do you think? Can military police benefit from HEMA training, considering they use shields and batons? If so, could it grow to be a regular part of their curriculum? And what are they using now as a basis for their training? Something derived from Krav Maga or Escrima perhaps? Or do they have their own unique approach to fighting with this particular set of weapons?

Just curious what you guys think. Cheers!

Sir Dreamin'
View user's profile Send private message
Theo Squires





Joined: 23 Jul 2012

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb, 2015 3:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wouldn't have thought it that useful. By MP I assume you mean riot police (although given how militarised many police forces are, I can understand you saying MP), so mostly their job is to stand in a line and push people back with their shields. Honestly I don't think there is a lot of technique to pushing unarmed and unarmoured people with a big shield and then clubbing them with a baton if they yell 'police brutality!'. Fitness, some measure of cooperation with the policemen next to you, knowing how to defend without unnecessarily injuring people...that's the important stuff.

Riot police have to deal with projectiles like rocks and the occasional petrol bomb - hardly what HEMA focuses on.

Of course, I'm not actually a policeman so what do I know.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Pieter B.





Joined: 16 Feb 2014
Reading list: 10 books

Posts: 577

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Military Police and HEMA training?         Reply with quote

Mishael Lopes Cardozo

He's one of those guys whose name does not fit his looks at all.
View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 31 pages

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that anything that can train people to control themselves and others in a high-stress situation is useful, regardless of the actual applications. Warrior ethos and all that.

http://www.koryu.com/library/gbristol1.html

Of course if the training isn't stress-tested, it is probably not useful for this situation. Could be useful for many others though. And of course any one individual might be surprisingly resilient and effective in this situation, regardless of training!
View user's profile Send private message
Rim Andries




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Military Police and HEMA training?         Reply with quote

Pieter B. wrote:
Mishael Lopes Cardozo

He's one of those guys whose name does not fit his looks at all.


Haha thats a truth if I ever heard one! Going by his name you would expect a suave and smooth talking mediterranean fella. Instead you get Ragnar Lothbrok with a dutch accent.

Sir Dreamin'
View user's profile Send private message
Márk György Kis





Joined: 02 Jul 2013

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb, 2015 2:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unnecessary, only use of it would be that it'd be cool.

Riot police and police forces in general (same as military) have devised their own system, which is modern (reacts to modern threats), uses group-based movements and has different goals.

Even if you break it down to individual fighting techniques, properly learning modern equipment usage is more than enough. No need to include historical things, just because the "neverending wisdom" or such buzzword.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jeroen T




Location: Holland
Joined: 23 Oct 2013

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb, 2015 4:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mishael has aided some public transport security. (if were talking about the same incident).

He has a nice HEMA school and developed a unarmed combatstyle based on HEMA called Faust.

Allthough he's not as a HEMA instructeur on GOT i hope he can educate the figthchoreograph a bit.
View user's profile Send private message
Mark T




PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are more than a few modern combatives instructors around who have studied what we might now call HEMA in one form or another - some well before modern HEMA even existed. Some will be known in modern HEMA circles (one even coined the term 'Western Martial Arts') while others, not so much. Some integrate this into what they teach students, including police, some don't.

I've personally attended modern combatives courses which drew on historical techniques, which were also attended by FBI and CIA employees, as well as active duty soldiers, heads of corporate security, and undercover police officers. One person I've studied with had the BATF and DEA attending some private training with them just the week before. One repeat HEMA competition winner is a police officer by day; another told me about using a classic Ringen technique in handling someone in a violent drug-crazed state while on the job; and at least one HEMA practitioner has been requested to show longsword techniques (of all things) to a north-American police unit ...

I'm not making a big case here for the relevance of HEMA to modern policing, but there are some modern combatives instructors who are familiar with HEMA, as well as some modern police units who seek out instruction that draws, at least in part, on techniques derived from HEMA. In each case, some of the reasons why this is not necessarily better known should be obvious ... not the least of which the modern combatives dictum of 'Never miss an opportunity to keep your mouth shut'.

The world is an interesting place!

Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury

Schallern sind sehr sexy!
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,427

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thing that might be missing in the discussion is, depending on who the guys are and what their day job really is, they are not riot police per say. Most people are not riot control specialists. Extended family in the military and law enforcement all train for riot/crowd control but none of them do it full time.

It seems (to me based on second hand experience only) that riot control training is intentionally simple and group oriented. That way people drafted into the role can be up to speed and effective quickly. My son does artillery most of the time but in a pinch he gets issued the gear and stands in a line. Brother in law is a detective but still has the gear. Sister in law works a beat and always has the gear with her. They all gets refresher training from time to time. What I gather is that its more about organization, numbers, holding formation and discipline than individual technique. That tends to be the opposite of WMA in my limited experience.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Military Police and HEMA training?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum