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Raman A




Location: United States
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2015 9:34 pm    Post subject: Full-visor armets         Reply with quote

I'm looking for information on fifteenth century armets with "full" visors. Here's an example of what I mean:


http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/4189896

Instead of the occularia being created by a gap between the visor and brow of the helmet like on typical fifteenth century armets, it's got a complete visor. Was this a later addition to an armet that had lost its visor, or is this visor contemporary with the helmet? I found a couple more examples in Sir Guy Francis Laking's A Record of European Armour and Arms Through Seven Centuries:

https://archive.org/stream/recordofeuropean02lakiuoft#page/82/mode/2up

Laking speculates that the full visor was the original form of the armet, and it was later replaced by a half-visor and brow reinforce. I'm not sure if his dating is correct, or even if the armets are originals. Does anyone know of any modern works discussing early full-visored armets? Were these visors even contemporary with the helmets or added later during the 16th-19th centuries? Does anyone know of any period artwork depicting armets of this form?
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Robert MacPherson
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Location: Jeffersonville USA
Joined: 27 Feb 2008

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are a couple in this fresco by Piero della Francesca. He is said to have painted it between 1458 and 1466.




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Robert MacPherson
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://billyandcharlie.com/
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 523

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Similar visors feature very prominently in Pisanello's frescoes in the Ducal Palace in Mantova (Mantua), which seems to represent a tournament. In the frescoes, their appearance is very reminiscent of those visors on grand bacinets that so much resemble 'frog mouthed' helms.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...p_01.1.jpg

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Raman A




Location: United States
Joined: 25 Aug 2011

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan, 2015 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert and James: Thank you! Those frescoes are exactly the type of depiction I was looking for.

Does anyone have a comment about Laking's theory? He believed that the full-visor armet was the predecessor of the typical armet, and was developed directly from frog-mouth bascinets. I'm not so sure. The dates don't seem to line up correctly, it would seem that the full-visor was simply an alternative style.
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