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James WD





Joined: 11 Jan 2015

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 11 Jan, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Naval Sword Identification         Reply with quote

Hello everyone, been trying with no avail to find out who manufactured this sword -

I bought it some time ago when I commissioned into the Royal Navy off of the ceremonial training instructor who buys antiques from G&H, Wilkinsons etc. It's for practical, duty/ceremonial use rather than a wall hanger.

I bought it for £750, it's Kings Crown naval pattern, has a fighting blade (still slightly sharp) but no makers mark. It has a small smooth disc where one should be. It's stamped: 1 2 4 4 1 . It came in a decayed leather bag with an old style baggage label for 'Capt. K.S. Colquhoun' and addressed to Waterloo Station.

After doing some research it could be the Captain K.S. Colquhoun from the WW2 escort carrier HMS Trumpeter:
http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/ES...LLe3nujjIU

The CT Warrant Officer reckons it's Victorian, and a lot of these sorts of things come through the Naval College so it could well be - but without a makers mark I'm stuck with the research. I hope this isn't too modern for this forum, i'm running out of options in finding people with the know-how.

Stamp reads 12441, 1 is a little dark. Knot is not original, I have the original but it's now almost black and very frayed. I don't have it or the remains of the leather carrier to hand for photographs at the moment.







Full image:
http://postimg.org/image/xklk5617d/full/


Last edited by James WD on Sun 11 Jan, 2015 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Sun 11 Jan, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Naval Sword Identification         Reply with quote

How about you show a full picture of this sword. Maybe there are experts here who can identify it.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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James WD





Joined: 11 Jan 2015

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 11 Jan, 2015 11:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Full image:

http://postimg.org/image/xklk5617d/full/
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Mon 12 Jan, 2015 12:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James,
Please post larger images, particularly of the proof disc, hilt, and ricasso.

Thank you,
Jonathan
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James WD





Joined: 11 Jan 2015

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 12 Jan, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Links to high resolution images:

http://postimg.org/image/sote019bz/
http://postimg.org/image/nnlzyo1vj/ Slightly better image: http://postimg.org/image/5qg5179ar/
http://postimg.org/image/714fpl8xr/
http://postimg.org/image/4sq9891tr/
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 13 Jan, 2015 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, James. I am afraid that without a marked proof disc it will not be possible to identify the maker. Your sword looks like it was made in the 20th century, probably for the officer named on the sword bag. At this time there were very few makers in the UK, but still quite a few retailers.

I think you have found the original owner--well done!

For more general information on RN officers' swords, see here: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...ers-Swords
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James WD





Joined: 11 Jan 2015

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jan, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks,

sad news indeed. Is there anything I can do with the serial number?
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Wed 14 Jan, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The serial number is too low to be a Wilkinson serial number (for a 20th century sword). A few makers and retailers used serial numbers to keep track of sword orders (type of sword, buyer name, dimensions, price, etc.). The Wilkinson sales ledgers are the only ones that survive to the present day. Retailers that used serial numbers in the 1930s and 1940s include (not an exhaustive list):

Army & Navy Co-operative Society / Army & Navy Stores Ltd
Gieve & Co.
Hawkes & Co.
Hobson & Sons
Guthrie & Valentine
Wilkinson Sword Co Ltd
Robert Mole & Son (serial numbers began with letter M)
Samuel Brother Ltd.
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