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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan, 2015 6:36 pm    Post subject: Albion Viceroy questions.         Reply with quote

How stiff is an Albion Viceroy?

Swords i can compare it to are Brescia, Cluny, Svante, Alexandria, Principe, etc...

It has a fuller that makes me wonder how stiff it can be, then again the deepest and longest part of the fuller is in the ricasso that is very thick i hear. I feel more and more attracted to stiff blades and am wondering where the viceroy stacks up in that department compared to the others i mentioned.

If you don't have any of the above, then compare to any other Albion you might have.

So if you have handled one or own one, please tell me, would love to know.

Thank you
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Paul B.G




Location: Victoria, Australia
Joined: 01 May 2011
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PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This review may be of interest;

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/28079

He is also selling his viceroy here;

https://sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/42718/

I'm also looking forward to replies to this thread as I'm also quite interested in picking one one down the track.

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One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Wed 07 Jan, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I owned one. It doesn't have much distal taper and is fairly stiff. It's a little more thrust than cut in the same way the XIIa/XVIa are a little more cut than thrust.
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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 4:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When you say fairly stiff, i define stiffness is 4 groups and 1 example.

Wobbly: Flat lenticular swords, X, XI, XII etc...

Not stiff : Brescia spadona, Cluny etc...

Stiff: Earl, Regent.

In between: Everything else.

and the 1 example is the Svante that is supremely stiff, far more so than the Earl or Regent.

Your giving me a feeling its in between, but in between is a very very big category. Is it stiffer than a XVa for example?

When you cut with it can you feel the blade bending or is it stiff like a board?

So hard to quantify stiffness... *gasp

Maybe comparing it to a Crecy helps, most people have handled one, i would place it at the top of the "not stiff" spectrum or in the lower "in between's".

What i really want to know is if that fuller influences the stiffness in a significant way, i get the impression it cant that much because the biggest part of the fuller is int he ricasso that is ( correct me if im wrong please ) pretty thick and stiff.
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Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Using your scale, the Viceroy is slightly less stiff than the Earl or Regent: it has more give, but not supremely. It also tends to flex in the last half/last third more than in the middle or evenly, and it should be noted that it does not have a reinforced tip. It has a moderate distal taper, and is similar (though not exactly the same) as a wider, meatier Crecy blade, though the two are nearly the same length. It's not an inflexible rod, but neither is it as flexible as most production type XVIs or some XIVs. It may be only a bit more flexible than an Albion Constable or Castellan, both of which tend to flex further down the blade. Remember, not all XVas are the same; the Mercenary and the Constable feel different enough in just blade mechanics alone, not counting hilt furniture.
"And they crossed swords."
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Although I do get the point of your scale, I object to the word "wobbly". I own Albion Gaddhjalt and it's definitely not wobbly. I was very surprised when I got it how stiff it is for an almost 35" long lenticular blade with a fuller. Del Tin type X's are also very stiff but that's because they are overbuilt...
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I didn't think a swords cross section could tell you how stiff a sword was. Didn't Nathan have a custom A&A GBS made with a lenticular cross section that was stiffer than the diamond cross section standard version?

Same with distal taper, having a thinner point can stiffen the overall feel of a sword by lessening the weight supported by the rest of the blade? I suppose there are two types of stiffness, how a sword florishes, and how it behaves in contact.

I have a Fiore, an (XVa) and an Atrim 1592 (XVIIIe). The Fiore is much stiffer, it's shorter, heavier, and a needle pointed thrust oriented sword. When thrust into a plastic antifreeze drum (you know, just like the Knights did to test their blades?) The Atrim behaves like a better thruster. The thinner tip, and sharper edges let it pierce the barrel easier and deeper than the Albion. So while stiffness can be measured, the "feel" of stiffness depends on a lot of variables.

I do think their are tendencies but that there are always exceptions.


That Viceroy is a beautiful sword, the transition of the ricasso and side fullers into the cutting edge is amazingly clean. And that one for sale has the half wire wrap. I'd love to add one to my small collection, but I'm not in the market for a new sword just now.

Cheers!

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew P. Adams wrote:
I didn't think a swords cross section could tell you how stiff a sword was. Didn't Nathan have a custom A&A GBS made with a lenticular cross section that was stiffer than the diamond cross section standard version?


Yup -- http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=265429#265429

People often want neat and nifty boxes in which to categorize things, but the discussion of such things really requires context and conversation.

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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Hmmm         Reply with quote

I'm not really sure about your scale either. The X, XI, XII do tend to have a bit more flex in them because of the blade shape, but I would not call them wobbly.

The Viceroy in my opinion is a compromise blade. It's design allows for adequate thrust penetration while maintaining a good cutting/slashing ability. The ricasso does add a bit of stiffness to the wider portion of the blade. I would say it is similar (in relative terms) to the Brescia or Crecy. Those to me are compromise blades too: adequate thrusting with good cutting/slashing ability. It is not going to penetrate like a Munich, but the Munich will not slash and cut like the Viceroy. Does that make sense.
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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmm         Reply with quote

Eric McHugh wrote:
I'm not really sure about your scale either. The X, XI, XII do tend to have a bit more flex in them because of the blade shape, but I would not call them wobbly.

The Viceroy in my opinion is a compromise blade. It's design allows for adequate thrust penetration while maintaining a good cutting/slashing ability. The ricasso does add a bit of stiffness to the wider portion of the blade. I would say it is similar (in relative terms) to the Brescia or Crecy. Those to me are compromise blades too: adequate thrusting with good cutting/slashing ability. It is not going to penetrate like a Munich, but the Munich will not slash and cut like the Viceroy. Does that make sense.


I understand what it was made for, but does that comparison to the Brescia and Crecy also hold true of its stiffness?

btw people don't get all mad over a word, i used the word wobbly, and you guys understood it, that's all that matters, ofc a good lenticular sword with fuller is not "wobbly" it is however wobbly in comparison to a svante, catch my meaning?
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmm         Reply with quote

Quote:
I understand what it was made for, but does that comparison to the Brescia and Crecy also hold true of its stiffness?

btw people don't get all mad over a word, i used the word wobbly, and you guys understood it, that's all that matters, ofc a good lenticular sword with fuller is not "wobbly" it is however wobbly in comparison to a svante, catch my meaning?


I wasn't trying to lecture you on the design features, I was merely trying to point out that it is a compromise sword like the Brescia or Crecy so it was my hope that this would give you an idea of the feel of the sword, but it is very subjective. There is no stiff-o-meter. All of these blades will bend and flex back because of the heat treat, but to what degree and scale it is hard to quantify. I think this blade as I remember it was similar to the Brescia in stiffness (again very subjective). Does that help?
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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Thu 08 Jan, 2015 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmm         Reply with quote

Eric McHugh wrote:
Quote:
I understand what it was made for, but does that comparison to the Brescia and Crecy also hold true of its stiffness?

btw people don't get all mad over a word, i used the word wobbly, and you guys understood it, that's all that matters, ofc a good lenticular sword with fuller is not "wobbly" it is however wobbly in comparison to a svante, catch my meaning?


I wasn't trying to lecture you on the design features, I was merely trying to point out that it is a compromise sword like the Brescia or Crecy so it was my hope that this would give you an idea of the feel of the sword, but it is very subjective. There is no stiff-o-meter. All of these blades will bend and flex back because of the heat treat, but to what degree and scale it is hard to quantify. I think this blade as I remember it was similar to the Brescia in stiffness (again very subjective). Does that help?


It does very much so thank you. I don't find the brescia all that stiff, then again im spoiled by swords like the Svante, Regent and Alexandria, all are very stiff.
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Eric McHugh
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Location: Crown Point, IN
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PostPosted: Sat 10 Jan, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hector, it is a nice sword! You would like it. It's one of Peter's best designs.
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