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Rim Andries




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario. Your weapons of choice?         Reply with quote

A virus. Tsunamis. Zombies. Kim Jong-Un...

It doesn't really matter. All that matters is the world is in ruins. Governments have fallen, industries are gone and there is no more internet (scary huh.. I know).

Fortunately for us, myArmoury members, we have the means to defend our bodies, keep our heads and safe our behinds.

So what kind of weapons would you choose to survive? These are the rules of the game:

1)No Rambo stuff!

Very important! This means historical weaponry only.
No guns except black powder muzzle loaders. No cartridges and certainly no automatics.
Bows are permitted but no takedowns, modern crossbows or compounds. And no modern materials, so no fiberglass and what have you.
All knives are allowed as long as they are historical fighting knives, so bowies and bayonets are okay, but please leave modern switchblades, butterfly knives and such, out of it.

2) Only weapons, no tools.

Tools don't count, even if you can use them as a weapon. So no pitchforks, hammers, sickles etc. If you choose an axe it must be a fighting axe, if you choose a hammer it must be a warhammer. Things intended to serve as both, like a tomahawk or a bauernwehr, will be allowed. A shield will count as a weapon.

3)Only pick 3.

Let's assume you have to move around a lot, unable to settle in one place for any length of time. You will have to pack light. Your maximum amount of weapons is three. Ammo and arrows will not be counted.

So what would you choose? And why?

Cheers!
Edit: since people are already mentioning tools and armor; let's just make this a general apocalypse kit thread, shall we? But please, do keep it historical. Thanks!

Sir Dreamin'


Last edited by Rim Andries on Mon 05 Jan, 2015 6:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I might dispute the " modern Materials thing " because a " traditional historic weapon " of modern manufacture might have some modern stuff like epoxy or other synthetics used in their making and don't really change their usefulness.

Now, making of weapons a few decades or centuries after the " EVENT " might only use natural materials except for some salvaged materials " pre-disaster ".

As to the 3 weapon limit I would add at least one large knife as a tool/weapon and not have the knife take up the place of one of the 3 weapons.


That being said as my " Opinion " the weapons I would take would be first a Bow for obvious reasons of having a ranged weapon.

Second, one of my Longswords because I have some training using one.

Third, a pole arm, Spear or Partisan or an English Bill.

The polearm is because even a mediocre spearman can be very challenging even for a master swordsman to defeat, and a person very good with a spear can take on just about anyone or even defend against multiple opponents not also armed with a polearm. ( Oh, I also have some training in using a staff and a lot of longsword technique and skills are transferable to the spear ).

A spear can also be good against large predator animals and used in hunting if one has the field craft, and luck, to sneak up on a deer or hunt wild boar .... not easy to do I assume, and very dangerous against the wild boar.

My main problem would be choosing among my favourite longsword or favourite polearm, but my A&A English Bill is very manoeuvrable and it also looks very scary which could be useful in intimidating anyone tempted to attack.

NOTE: The main axe edge is scary sharp. Eek! Big Grin



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You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 7:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, as to carrying all this stuff:

A) The bow might be unstrung and carried in a fabric bow bag with a shoulder strap, arrows in a quiver with a protective flap so that the arrows don't bounce out of the quiver, or get wet in rain.

B) The polearm might also be equipped with a shoulder sling ( Like a rifle sling ) for when the bow is strung and in use, the polearm should also have a pointy butt spike so that it can be planted into the ground leaving the hands free to use the bow, and can be quickly retrieved if the fight turns into a close fight.

C) The sword is the backup weapon and always on the body if and when the other weapons are with one's other travel equipment, or if one is not carrying them for some reason like being a guess at a friendly settlement.

Customs about when one would be allowed to carry the weapons in a city or village might vary greatly and depend a lot on what customs would develop. ( With a warrior culture, and the clear dangers of the scenario, expecting someone to surrender their weapons would be almost an insult and an irrational thing to voluntarily submit too ..... Some local Warlord might try to impose weapons bands inside their areas, and one might have to comply ? ).

It would be a rare place where one wouldn't at least be wearing the weapon/utility knife at all times. ( I know that the knife is sort against your parameters as a fourth weapon, but a knife is just too useful and necessary in any survival scenario that not having one just wouldn't happen .... the knife also isn't a real extra burden and one can carry it almost un-noticed ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 8:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think in practice, one would want things useful for hunting and utility tasks. That's what they'd be usually used for. So:
1. The "sensible choice":
(a) Short sword, maybe a golok that will do the work of axe, camp knife, and weapon.
(b) Medium draw-weight longbow (perhaps about 50lbs). Or maybe a crossbow, hand-spannable.
(c) Short fighting knife (maybe a dagger).

A spear would be a more useful (c), but let us restrict the number of large non-sidearm items to 1.

2. The low-tech choice:
(a) Short sword, as in 1(a).
(b) Sling.
(c) Spear.

What if we want to be much more warrior and less hunter? That can be done, too.

3. Stuff that's cheap and easy to buy and maintain, and easy and inconspicuous to carry, while remaining well-armed.
(a) Short sword, maybe a golok that will do the work of axe, camp knife, and weapon.
(b) Quiver of short javelins (like jarids). [Or sling, as in 2(b).]
(c) Helmet.

4. Stuff that's easy to buy and maintain, but conspicuous. Long-range option.
(a) Longbow.
(b) Longsword. Choose the longest sword you can comfortably wear and draw.
(c) Dirk/dagger/long knife.

5. Stuff that's easy to buy and maintain, but conspicuous. Short-range option.
(a) Short sword, as in 1(a).
(b) Quiver of short javelins (like jarids).
(c) Spear or lightweight bill with a very hooky hook (which is a useful tool as well) and long spike.

6. Let us be rich!
(a) Composite bow.
(b) One handed sword. Doesn't really matter what. Arming sword, shamshir, whatever.
(c) Saintie or similar. Or if you want to be more conventional, a buckler or dhal.

Saintie:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=chVfUm2Hz3MC&pg=PA535&lpg=PA535#v=onepage&q&f=false (pictures on next page, including Chinese version).
http://akaalarms.com/sold-rare-18th-century-i...ref-10202/

Then one could look at options that include a horse. Assuming the horse doesn't count, the classic combo would be lance, bow, and sword. But one could opt for armour, bow, sword.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Ben Coomer




Location: Colorado
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 9:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm...

1. Longbow. Useful for defending oneself and hunting. Also as I am proficient in using them and making them and the arrows, I have a distinct advantage with one.

2. Longsword. A sword with no real weaknesses and lots of versatility makes it a good overall choice if there's a decent degree of danger of fighting other similarly armed people. Also, I'm good with one.

3. This is harder. A spear is tempting, but I need to think about being able to carry all this too and where. They become a problem indoors pretty quickly. Therefore I am going to go with a longish dagger like the old Windlass Coustille. That gives me options in tight quarters.

Now I'd probably be carrying other items like a hatchet and smaller knives, but in pure "weapons" terms that'd be my choices.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 10:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I liked Jean's choices. A bow would be great, but 'm not proficient, so that's out.

1) A bastard sword, specifically my ATrim Maker's Mark XVIa. The blade is 33 inches, a good length for me. It's light, strong, fast, a good cut and thrust, and is the most lethal sword I've ever come across. The photo below doesn't do it justice.

2) I need something shorter, like the Coustille Ben mentioned. Luckily, I have a DT6161, a broad 16.5 inch long blade, that would be good for enclosed places. I'd also have a shorter knife, but as Jean says, that doesn't count.

3) i agree with Jean about the Polearm. A poll axe, would be nice, but it might be difficult to carry around. Instead, I would go for a spear, perhaps the A&A Friedrich IV.



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A&A Friedrich IV spear

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I know, no tools, but this would be very handy
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Peter Messent




Location: Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 02 Jan, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For me, it would be:

Bearded fighting axe - fewer things that can go wrong than with a sword, handle is by far the most likely part to break and can easily be replaced. I'm much better with an axe than a sword.

Seax (Nordic style, not broken back) - I'd be just as content with a bowie, went with the seax for the fun of it. Can be used offhand with the axe or as a backup. Also utilitarian, a good sized seax is plenty to harvest a bit of wood and make a new axe handle.

Bow - I'm not entirely sure what kind. I'd prefer something compact like a Scythian bow, but I'm not sure how I feel about the complexity of construction. Probably just a self bow, in the 40-50lb range. Plenty weight for fighting and hunting, not turning the tide of any battles here! Low enough weight that you'd have a good array of options for making new arrows.

My main thing is ease of maintenance and maneuverability - the potential for urban fighting (potentially indoors) rules out polearms and most swords for me. Axe, seax and bow also all have utilitarian purposes beyond fighting. While a fighting axe isn't ideal for preparing wood, a lot of people into traditional woodcraft (me included), blackpowder reenacting and ancient experimental archaeologists (and so on) use tomahawks and other small, light, thin-bladed axes to good effect. Happy
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Rim Andries




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
I might dispute the " modern Materials thing " because a " traditional historic weapon " of modern manufacture might have some modern stuff like epoxy or other synthetics used in their making and don't really change their usefulness.


You make a fair point Jean. Also when it comes to the knife. I agree it would be the first thing people would grab. I thought about not including it in the count (as well as the shield) but I still feel three weapons is about as much as anyone can carry. Remember you also have to carry clothes, food, pots and cups perhaps, a blanket and so on. You already have to shuffle your longbow and english bill Wink...

...but since the knife is so small... yeah okay... why not Happy

It is fun to see people thinking in terms of warrior, hunter and fighter. That is exactly how I see it.

As matter of fact I will choose my weapons based on tribal/nomadic people. Like the American Indians.

1) A large heavy duty bauernwehr
2) A handaxe, with hammerhead and topspike
3) A crossbow, spanned by hand or belt

I choose the crossbow because I am a bad shot with the bow to be honest! I will leave my longsword at home. It is too big and it has no hunting applications. Its a shame really cause it is the only weapon I am truly trained in. I will certainly not take a polearm. Way too big to carry around. Sure it can serve as a big walking stick but only when the environment is right for it. As soon as you need to climb, crawl, hide or whatever it will be in the way. I will be glad if someone else brings one along though!

Thanks for your posts guys!

Sir Dreamin'
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Rim Andries




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
I think in practice, one would want things useful for hunting and utility tasks. That's what they'd be usually used for. So:
1. The "sensible choice":
(a) Short sword, maybe a golok that will do the work of axe, camp knife, and weapon.
(b) Medium draw-weight longbow (perhaps about 50lbs). Or maybe a crossbow, hand-spannable.
(c) Short fighting knife (maybe a dagger).

A spear would be a more useful (c), but let us restrict the number of large non-sidearm items to 1.

2. The low-tech choice:
(a) Short sword, as in 1(a).
(b) Sling.
(c) Spear.

What if we want to be much more warrior and less hunter? That can be done, too.

3. Stuff that's cheap and easy to buy and maintain, and easy and inconspicuous to carry, while remaining well-armed.
(a) Short sword, maybe a golok that will do the work of axe, camp knife, and weapon.
(b) Quiver of short javelins (like jarids). [Or sling, as in 2(b).]
(c) Helmet.

4. Stuff that's easy to buy and maintain, but conspicuous. Long-range option.
(a) Longbow.
(b) Longsword. Choose the longest sword you can comfortably wear and draw.
(c) Dirk/dagger/long knife.

5. Stuff that's easy to buy and maintain, but conspicuous. Short-range option.
(a) Short sword, as in 1(a).
(b) Quiver of short javelins (like jarids).
(c) Spear or lightweight bill with a very hooky hook (which is a useful tool as well) and long spike.

6. Let us be rich!
(a) Composite bow.
(b) One handed sword. Doesn't really matter what. Arming sword, shamshir, whatever.
(c) Saintie or similar. Or if you want to be more conventional, a buckler or dhal.

Saintie:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=chVfUm2Hz3MC&pg=PA535&lpg=PA535#v=onepage&q&f=false (pictures on next page, including Chinese version).
http://akaalarms.com/sold-rare-18th-century-i...ref-10202/

Then one could look at options that include a horse. Assuming the horse doesn't count, the classic combo would be lance, bow, and sword. But one could opt for armour, bow, sword.


Someone has put some thought into this! I like it Timo! And armor doesn't count as a weapon, only shields do. So take all the armor you can carry Wink

Sir Dreamin'
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about a 12-pound Napoleon gun?

1861 Colt Navy revolver?

1861 Springfield Musket?

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Pieter B.





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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are we already at a point where new communities based on farming have arisen? Do other people have automatic weapons? Do cars still work?

Are zombies the the ones we should worry about or people?

In case of a walking dead zombie scenario:
1: A good cutting sword (civilian longsword or something like a katana)
2: A bauernwehr
3: Nothing (don't want to weigh myself down to much)

Any other scenario without zombies and possible cars:
1: A model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber
2: average size Bowie knife
3: A short recurve bow in a Scythian bow holster.
Bonus: A low maintenance horse
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Peter Lyon
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Without knowing the specific scenario (urban/rural, soon after SHTF or long after), my choices would be:

Musket for hunting in particular, as I am crap with a bow.
Machete (good quality, maybe make my own slightly over length version) - multipurpose, and doesn't need great skill to use effectively.
Hunting knife for general use and final defence.

Still hammering away
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Jouni V.





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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jan, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

1) Spear - the type doesn't really matter, as long as it's throwable a few feet. For hunting and combat, both.
2) Bearded axe of roughly Viking age type - the age doesn't really matter, but the idea is that the handle has to be replaceable and it has more than one use... and bearded because I believe that a "spike edge" broke too easily, which was why the bearded design came into existance in the first place.
3) Big knife or Cinquedea - for close combat. (Carving knives etc. are tools which were excepted by the Original Poster.)

"What? No swords?"

Yep, no swords. Heavy on maintenance, demanding on skill. That's why.
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Ralph Grinly





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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 2:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For all *practical* (ie - no mythical zombies) I'd go for - Ranged weapon..bow. Medium range - Spear . Close quarter- some thing edged, about gladius length. There was a very good reason that spears have been the primary weapon of choice for most people during most of history. They were very effective., used minimal amount of metals and equally effective against human and animal adversaries.
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Rim Andries




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
How about a 12-pound Napoleon gun?

1861 Colt Navy revolver?

1861 Springfield Musket?


Thanks for representing the guns in this post Joe. Seems like you are the only one for now, I wonder why.

Not sure what you are going to do with the 12 pounder? Pack light remember? Happy

The colt uses a paper cartridge if I'm not mistaken, so I 'm not sure I can allow it. I have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we would all be choosing AK 47's and Glock's and that would be boring. Wink

The musket? Can't see why not!

Sir Dreamin'
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Rim Andries




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Lyon wrote:
Without knowing the specific scenario (urban/rural, soon after SHTF or long after), my choices would be:

Musket for hunting in particular, as I am crap with a bow.
Machete (good quality, maybe make my own slightly over length version) - multipurpose, and doesn't need great skill to use effectively.
Hunting knife for general use and final defence.


I am afraid I cannot allow the machete. Don't get me wrong: you can and should carry it by all means! It is just that I will not count it as a weapon because it is designed as a tool. Now something like a kukri on the other hand, was designed to do both if I am correct.

Cheers!

Sir Dreamin'
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Rim Andries




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pieter B. wrote:
Are we already at a point where new communities based on farming have arisen? Do other people have automatic weapons? Do cars still work?

Are zombies the the ones we should worry about or people?

In case of a walking dead zombie scenario:
1: A good cutting sword (civilian longsword or something like a katana)
2: A bauernwehr
3: Nothing (don't want to weigh myself down to much)

Any other scenario without zombies and possible cars:
1: A model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber
2: average size Bowie knife
3: A short recurve bow in a Scythian bow holster.
Bonus: A low maintenance horse


I don't know. You don't know. We don't know. Nobody knows... Wink

Sir Dreamin'
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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
Lets see...
Short- medium length ,wide bladed sword/falcata/bolo
Boar spear
Crossbow & 30 bolts
Helmet
Chainmail shirt
Small shield
100' of rope
fishing line & hooks
2 weeks iron rations
canteen
4 long burning torchs
Flint & steel
Back pack
And of course: 4 potions of xtra healing. The old lists are the best lists :-)
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rim Andries wrote:
Joe Fults wrote:
How about a 12-pound Napoleon gun?

1861 Colt Navy revolver?

1861 Springfield Musket?


Thanks for representing the guns in this post Joe. Seems like you are the only one for now, I wonder why.

Not sure what you are going to do with the 12 pounder? Pack light remember? Happy

The colt uses a paper cartridge if I'm not mistaken, so I 'm not sure I can allow it. I have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we would all be choosing AK 47's and Glock's and that would be boring. Wink

The musket? Can't see why not!


Pretty sure the 1861 colt navy is black powder not cartridge....but I can go back a few years to get same general idea.

Napoleon is for the front porch. Call it a doorbell.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Tom L.




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PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scottish basket hilt, Martini Henry, and a khukri for me.
I have a cunning plan Mr. B.
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