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Márk György Kis





Joined: 02 Jul 2013

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Riveted mail vendor review needed!         Reply with quote

Hey!

I'm contemplating buying riveted mail from either Get Dressed For Battle or Cap a pie. Do you by any chance have experiences with them? Which one should I choose? Or any other vendor for that matter within the EU? Gonna go for dome rivets, if that helps.


Best.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,218

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a cap a pie mail, half sleeves, half rings solid and half round riveted round rings. It's a good mail shirt and looks nice, especially when dark rings get slightly lighter and more grey-ish colour with use... Brass makers mark ring is a nice touch. The rivets tend to catch other rings and sometimes it gets tangled a bit, but I guess it's a problem with most if not all modern mass produced round riveted mail. i would love to try wedge riveted mail and see if it's gentler with garments, hair and less tangly...
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try tumbling it in a cement mixer for a week or so. It should help make it smoother. But if the riveting is crap it will fall apart.
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T. Kew




Location: Cambridge, UK
Joined: 21 Apr 2012

Posts: 168

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would buy from Cap a Pie - several of my friends own mail from him, and he stands by his product.

Yes, the round rivets aren't particularly historical, but the QC is fairly good.

The wedge rivets look nicer and behave much better, but do cost proportionally more.
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Mark T




PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Try tumbling it in a cement mixer for a week or so. It should help make it smoother. But if the riveting is crap it will fall apart.


Dan, would you suggest doing this with some kind of added media, or does the de-burring just happen as the mail abrades itself?

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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've never used an abrasive. To remove rust the sources recommend tumbling in bran. There was no "sand and vinegar" nonsense.
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Kew wrote:


Yes, the round rivets aren't particularly historical.


In what sense?

I'd just like to throw in a positive mention for a relatively new UK operation called 'Armoured Up'.
Essentially the same products as other vendors but offers a made to measure service at about the same price as other vendors offer 'off the peg'.

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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,260

PostPosted: Mon 15 Dec, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Try tumbling it in a cement mixer for a week or so. It should help make it smoother. But if the riveting is crap it will fall apart.


When we tumble the welded stainless at Darkwood Armory, we usually let it go for somewhere between half an hour and a full hour. No need to get rust off, but the media (ball bearings, nuts and bolts) does make sure the spot welds are good.

Of course the softer the media, the longer you have to rock or roll it. Bran has the added benefit of being slightly oily.

The thread on Armour Archive regarding cleaning mail where Bertus Brokamp gives the source for using bran:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...hilit=bran

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Jerry Monaghan




Location: melbourne australia
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Dec, 2014 1:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mark
I also recommend Armoured up as I have just received an custom made shirt and they are great to deal with
It also fits like an glove the workmanship is very impressive as was the price he also ships to Australia
I hope this helps.

Regards

Jerry Monaghan
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Mark Hale




Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: 15 Sep 2006

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 16 Dec, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
T. Kew wrote:


Yes, the round rivets aren't particularly historical.


In what sense?

Essentially the same products as other vendors


Hi - Mark from Cap-a-pie here, T-Kew the round rivets are quite historical, came before the wedge and then returned after the wedge.

Dan Howard on here has written a really good article on maille, well worth a look.

Matt, hope all is well with you. No offence but I have to smile, there is a big variation in maille so i would never go as far as saying "essentially the same product" Perhaps in looks at a distant Wink . I am not going to go into details on various vendors as i don't feel that is appropriate even if you asked me off line, but what I will say is what I tell everyone that asks. Take a good look at the build quality and the construction of the rings and rivets. I spent a number of years, and i really do mean years, sourcing manufactures of rings and believe me there was a significant variance even with places in the same town/city. And please don't get me started on employment practices. But yes I also looked at that from an ethical viewpoint.

The quality of materials used also differs and that does make a difference as well, depending on its end use.

The best advice I can give anyone is to request samples or better still go and see each vendors products themselves and please ask around. Also look at what they are being used for in terms of "abuse" I supply a lot of my maille to many jousters, both balsa and solid lance use. Also ensure you compare similar gauges of material and construction. Round rings function differently to flat in the same gauge, they are not as strong which is why they are cheaper to buy. Or at least they are from me.

End of the day cost is always going to be an issue but like anything these days you need to check its fit for your purpose. After all you are paying for it and wearing it so the choice is ultimately yours.

Hope that helps and that this is seen as neutral to all vendors concerned as that is what its intended to be, nothing more, nothing less.


Cheers

www.capapie.co.uk
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Henrik Granlid




Location: Sweden
Joined: 17 Apr 2012

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed 17 Dec, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mark!

In browsing for a good source for chain, I've come across your wonderful site, and the fact that you operate out of the eu makes it a very welcome thing indeed.

For constructing my own late 14th century maille (skirt and sleeves or a haubergon, I have yet to decide), which rings would you recommend to strike the best balance between ease of construction and a historical look? I notice, for instance, that your wedge riveted rings come in 7mm but you don't have solid rings in that size. 6 or 9 are the primary rings I'm looking at for this since you have flat solids for each.

I do Sca heavy combat so if one holds up to abuse better than the other, I'd love to hear it Happy
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Mark Hale




Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: 15 Sep 2006

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun 22 Feb, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Granlid wrote:
Hi Mark!

In browsing for a good source for chain, I've come across your wonderful site, and the fact that you operate out of the eu makes it a very welcome thing indeed.

For constructing my own late 14th century maille (skirt and sleeves or a haubergon, I have yet to decide), which rings would you recommend to strike the best balance between ease of construction and a historical look? I notice, for instance, that your wedge riveted rings come in 7mm but you don't have solid rings in that size. 6 or 9 are the primary rings I'm looking at for this since you have flat solids for each.

I do Sca heavy combat so if one holds up to abuse better than the other, I'd love to hear it Happy


Have already replied to Henrik via email but thought would add the gist of our conversation here.

for C14th i generally recommend Wedge riveted from a historical viewpoint although for ease of construction it has to be said the pin rivets are much easier (I have just finished a fully riveted skirt in wedge with brass edging, the air is often blue at times LOL) . I think the key thing to look at is the way maille was around for the best part of 2000 years + and although there is quite a change in rings styles in terms of sizes and type of riveting, from looking at various original pieces there is often examples where items have been re used. I actually have a section of what I am reliably informed is a C14th section of wedge riveted maille but it also has some very late C15th rings, perhaps repairs. But yes there does appear to be a shift at certain stages from round rings to flatter and pin to wedge and back to pin again and even round ring by the late C15th

In terms of what holds up better in modern maille, I think this ultimately comes down to the quality of the materials and how well the riveting is done. Over the years I have seen some equally poor wedge and pin riveted plus huge variations on the quality of mild steel. Personally I prefer wedge as this does allow for a lighter article simply down to the amount of material in the pin rivets vs wedge rivets. I have seen a difference of around 1kg when comparing a typical hauberk. This is something I have been hoping at some stage to research in terms of original maille, when time permits, as I do wonder if one of the factors why wedge started to rear its head was a weight issue amongst others.

Going back to the comments on the 7mm, that was an oversight on my part, we do have 7mm solid as well but for some reason they were not showing on my site. That's now been rectified although I am out of stock on the 7mm at the moment.

For those that have not seen it there is a really good article on this site by Dan Howard http://myArmoury.com/feature_mail.html this is well worth a look.

Anyway - apologies to anyone else that was following this thread, I tend not to have much time at the moment to scan forums.

Cheers

Mark
www.capapie.co.uk

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