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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Proportion for a hilt replacement         Reply with quote

Hello,

I began making a replacement hilt for a sword. Against my better judgment I just started forging away yesterday without a drawing or photos. Below is what I've come up with so far. The sword is 48" from tip to end of pommel. The cross guard I've made is 12.5" across. The cross guard will have side rings ultimately. In the shop sketches and mock-ups the width of this cross guard made sense to me, but having assembled these components, it is looking both beefy and probably too wide. The pommel is from the original sword, but will be replaced as well with a spiraling fluted mushroom shaped one. I was wondering how these proportions looked to others.







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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It does look overly wide, yes. One very general rule of thumb for good looking proportions is to make the guard roughly as wide as the handle is long, and this is quite significantly wider than that.

Other than that it looks good, though! Happy

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

ummmm - just me, I suppose. The guard is just TOO wide. Sad
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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't hold your punches. I have no qualms about setting this in the bin and trying again. You've both verified my suspicion and I will have another go tonight. The attached image is photoshopped to remove 1" from each end, matching the width of the guard to the overall length of the hilt.



Thanks,

-Adair
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Bryan Heff




Location: Philadelphia
Joined: 04 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I did a very informal comparison for my own purposes a while back of a lot bastard and two-handed swords and I agree with the other posters that the current configuration looks "off" due the the cross being a bit too wide. Your photoshopped version looks a lot better and you could perhaps go a little bit shorter, but the 1" you removed looks way better compared to the grip length.

Good luck with the modifications.

The church is near but the roads are icy. The tavern is far but I will walk carefully. - Russian Proverb
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes - new image is better. But given that blade? Something in me says "curve the guard forward". It could be the shape of the grip and pommel, but I just believe a forward curved guard would enhance this unit....
In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 943

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, that looks like it's in the right ballpark, to me. You could still take another half an inch off each end, but that's really up to personal preference and the sword's overall handling qualities at this point.

PS. Of course, if you curve it that also makes it effectively shorter, so take that into account! Happy

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Peter Rieder




Location: Munich
Joined: 02 May 2007

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hm, I donīt know, I donīt think I would like a guard with a forward curve on this sword. But how about curving the overly wide guard into an S-shape, you know, horizontally? There are some Landsknecht greatswords that use this pattern, and I think it looks pretty nice.
A loaf that tries to twist its own fate is not a loaf at all but is, in fact, a pretzel.

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Rieder wrote:
Hm, I donīt know, I donīt think I would like a guard with a forward curve on this sword. But how about curving the overly wide guard into an S-shape, you know, horizontally? There are some Landsknecht greatswords that use this pattern, and I think it looks pretty nice.


That is exactly what I was thinking.

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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks again for the feedback. Since the guard is forged with a reverse taper (thicker on the ends, tapering towards the quillon block) I don't think it would work for a recurved or S-shaped guard. For such a guard I would have forged parallel sided arms. My intention was a straight guard with very slightly swelled ends, a side ring to one side and a forward swept ring meeting a quillon arm to the other.

Tonight I decided rather than starting over I would experiment with modifying this guard. I cut it down and filed more spiral flutes in. The terminals wound up much smaller since I had less stock to work with. I may just cut them off, shortening the guard even more. I also had less flare at the ends since I cut off the more dramatically flared section. Not sure if I will start over or not.



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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 21 Dec, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Update. Added side ring today.

-A.

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