Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Type X sword recommendations? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Joshua Waters




Location: South Carolina
Joined: 15 Dec 2013

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri 19 Sep, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Type X sword recommendations?         Reply with quote

Greetings!

I am looking getting a proper type X sword for my First crusade Norman kit.
I have been collecting swords for a while now, but the swords I have are brands like DSA and Hanwei and a few odd lots, and now that my knowledge of swords has greatly improved since my discovery of this forum I am not quite satisfied with my old swords anymore.
So I am finally starting to wander to the high end sword range. Earlier this year I made an inquiry with A&A, and unfortunately the sword I had in mind was way out of my budget range(college ugh).
I want a good Brazil nut pommel sword for the late 11th / early 12th century, my budget goes up to a $1000, but around $800 is preferable.
The top three I am looking to choose from are the Del Tin 2133, the VA Norman, or the Pavel Moc Hastings. My big question is what is the quality of these swords?
I intend to get a scabbard with any sword I get, so if I do get the DT or Pavel Moc, I will probably look at a Crusader monk scabbard for them.
But please recommend any good Brazil nut type Xís you can think of (things like this bother me until I make up my mind). I also donít mind ordering from overseas.
I already know about Albion, but I donít really like the looks of any of their Type Xís except for the Reeve. But for some reason when the prices start getting that high, I donít really like the idea of paying that much for a CNC milled blade. I am not saying they aren't exceptional in quality, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I like to admire to workmanship that goes into forging the blade at that price level (sorry if that sounds rude, not my intention).
But I am still open to considering getting the Reeve; I think itís a wonderful sword.

Thank you very much; your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Benedictus Dominus Deus meus.
Qui docet manus meas ad prślium, et digitos meos ad bellum.

Deus vult!
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,958

PostPosted: Fri 19 Sep, 2014 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The VA Norman is a good sword. To me it looks more like a Xa than a X. The blade is made in China. I'm not sure if it is forged or made via CNC.

I have an Albion Reeve. It is a superb sword with one of the best looking brazil nut pommels. The blade has been described as functioning like a big butcher knife. It's very light and handy.

As for forged vs. CNC, if both are well crafted swords, the end product is exactly the same.



 Attachment: 98.45 KB
Reeve2s.jpg
Albion Reeve

 Attachment: 98.83 KB
Reeve4s.jpg
Albion reeve

 Attachment: 99.06 KB
Reeve8s.jpg
Albion Reeve
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 6 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,510

PostPosted: Fri 19 Sep, 2014 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think if you're willing to spend the money to get an Albion but not willing to spend the money needed to go full custom, get the Albion.
The Del Tin swords are ok, but are HEAVY and have a secondary bevel if you want it sharp. I haven't seen the VA sword so can't comment. The Pavel Moc Hastings looks way off for a type X to me. The fuller is too broad. It just isn't convincing to me.To me, it looks like the fuller got away from him a bit...
It's up to you but if it were me, I would get the Albion.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Fri 19 Sep, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A customized Hanwei Tinker Norman is worth considering... forged blade made from good steel and it's hand made, not CNC perfect, so in some ways it's actually more like the originals than many high end pieces. Polish the blade, take the polish off the cross and pommel, redo the grip if you'd like... even if you hire the work out you'll still have money left over for a reasonably accurate scabbard+suspension. The H/T Normans are a diamond in the rough.
View user's profile Send private message
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,686

PostPosted: Fri 19 Sep, 2014 11:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This one might be worth a look.
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=30806&highlight=

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,256

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 2:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I second the H/T Norman. That is one badass sword for your money. Big Grin ...........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,958

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
This one might be worth a look.
http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=30806&highlight=


That Valiant Norman is also 10% off this weekend. You get a good scabbard with it too - a great value.
View user's profile Send private message
Josh Wilson




Location: WV
Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to cast my lot with the Hanwei Tinker Norman sword as well.
View user's profile Send private message
Nicolas Gauthier




Location: Quebec city
Joined: 18 Oct 2012

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was just wondering, is the VA Norman historically accurate for this type of sword ? The fuller seem a little bit narrow, and the blade section after the fuller is diamond shaped. Shouldn't it be flat lenticular ?
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I noticed that too, the H/T Norman is probably more historically accurate but the VA Norman SE is still a very good value and the cross section could be adjusted on a belt grinder without too much trouble. You see narrow fullers on Finnish swords but they also generally have smaller pommels.
View user's profile Send private message
Max L




Location: Philly
Joined: 29 Dec 2013

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicolas Gauthier wrote:
I was just wondering, is the VA Norman historically accurate for this type of sword ? The fuller seem a little bit narrow, and the blade section after the fuller is diamond shaped. Shouldn't it be flat lenticular ?

Indeed, it could have either been a bit longer and been a Xa or been wider with a wider fuller and been a true X.

That said, its a very good sword. I did a review on SBG about it that touches on that.
http://www.sword-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&...386678803d

I love my Norman, and definitely recommend it to sword collectors as a whole, but perhaps not to someone looking for a classic 11th century type X.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I vote for the Reeve. The VA's fuller is too narrow as others have said, for a Type X, but the bigger problem is the riser near the tip, which screams modern. The Pavel Moc Hastings has a atypically wide fuller which looks odd, as does the pommel to me.

The Reeve handles very nicely, being a Type X designed to hew through mostly unarmoured opponents. It would be my choice.
View user's profile Send private message
Max L




Location: Philly
Joined: 29 Dec 2013

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I ordered an Albion Bayeux a few weeks ago, which shares the same blade as the Reeve. I'm hoping this will fulfill the Norman-Era type X niche in my collection.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tomas B




Location: Ireland, Wales, Canada...I'm transient
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have an Albion Reeve and I absolutely love it. The brazil nut pommel is executed just right (so many of them look just a bit off). The blade is much lighter then I had assumed so it handles much better then I imagined it would.
View user's profile Send private message
Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've not handled either the H/T Norman nor the VA Norman, but I will offer my observations.

If you are not interested in historically-accurate portrayals, then read no further.

The scabbard of the H/T Norman is completely wrong for the period. Chapes were not really in use during the late 11th C or the early 12th C. The suspension method (2 straps/rings) that comes with the scabbard did not appear until the 15th C. So you might as well throw away the scabbard and get something else, because it's not even in the ballpark.

The VA Norman looks great. I really appreciate the thong belt instead of buckle belt, that's a really nice touch - and historically accurate. Unfortunately, it too comes with a chape, but I wonder if you can get one made for you without the chape. The tooling is also over the top, such elaborate scabbard tooling did not appear that early. Nonetheless, if I would buy one, if I didn't have to pay for a scabbard commission that is coming due soon.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

EDIT: Also the VA Norman has an offset sword belt, which was not developed until later around AD 1200-1220


Last edited by Harry Marinakis on Sun 21 Sep, 2014 6:06 am; edited 3 times in total
View user's profile Send private message
Max L




Location: Philly
Joined: 29 Dec 2013

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have no doubt Sonny would do a more simple period version of the scabbard and suspension if requested.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Josh Wilson




Location: WV
Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun 21 Sep, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harry Marinakis wrote:
I've not handled either the H/T Norman nor the VA Norman, but I will offer my observations.

If you are not interested in historically-accurate portrayals, then read no further.

The scabbard of the H/T Norman is completely wrong for the period. Chapes were not really in use during the late 11th C or the early 12th C. The suspension method (2 straps/rings) that comes with the scabbard did not appear until the 15th C. So you might as well throw away the scabbard and get something else, because it's not even in the ballpark.

The VA Norman looks great. I really appreciate the thong belt instead of buckle belt, that's a really nice touch - and historically accurate. Unfortunately, it too comes with a chape, but I wonder if you can get one made for you without the chape. The tooling is also over the top, such elaborate scabbard tooling did not appear that early. Nonetheless, if I would buy one, if I didn't have to pay for a scabbard commission that is coming due soon.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

EDIT: Also the VA Norman has an offset sword belt, which was not developed until later around AD 1200-1220



Hey Harry! I have to simultaneously agree and disagree with you at the same time here. Youre right, the scabbards do leave a lot to be desired, but I think one of the positive things about these models of swords `is that they have these sort of "farby" scabbards. I say this for two reasons, 1) by not going over the top in regards to historical correctness on the whole package, the company can focus on creating a decent sword and still keep the price down by pairing it with a less than ideal scabbard for those who are PC minded and 2) it makes these swords wonderful projects for those wanting to tailor them to their portrayals. Because this style of sword spanned a time that saw changes to scabbards and suspension systems, the company could theoretically offer a PC scabbard and suspension system that could still end up being wrong for someone's impression and need to be changed. As they are, no matter what you're going for, if you want to tailor a sword and scabbard to your kit, you're starting on the ground floor and at an affordable price.
View user's profile Send private message
Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Sun 21 Sep, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a H/T Norman and love the heck out of it.

Some small counters to Harry's advice regarding that sword:

Yes, the scabbard is not the best when it comes to historic accuracy, but the chape is still useful and the fiberglass core is good enough to hold the sword until you've gotten it "dressed" to your liking. If you cannot afford a custom or even semi-custom job, it's a simple enough matter to strip the fiberglass core and do it up yourself.

Also, the two straps and rings, on mine at least were not attached by anything but friction. You should be able to wiggle them off.

Apart from all that, the sword itself is one of my very favorites. It handles well and cuts beautifully. The Brazil-nut pommel can be a bit sharp for some people, but it's something you figure out after a while. I would strongly recommend that one as an economy option.
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 21 Sep, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, on this one, I'm going to back Harry. I own a scabbard without a chape and the sword is just fine in it, so I'm not really clear what is meant by "a chape is still useful". Considering it's historically inaccurate, it would be less work for the manufacturer to make a chape-less scabbard. I understand that people want a scabbard that is cheap for their sword, but if they're touting how good (and historically accurate) the H/T Norman is at its price point, which people do, then we'd better take into account the whole package, and not just the sword. The same goes for the VA Norman.
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Sun 21 Sep, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's still a tough value to beat overall but it's true that the H/T Norman's scabbard isn't very historical, basically it's just a functional blade cover. When I finish my polishing project I intend to do a wood cored, linen wrapped scabbard with a bridge.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Type X sword recommendations?
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum