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Derek Wassom




Location: Fribourg, Switzerland
Joined: 25 Feb 2004

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:58 am    Post subject: Fischer Auction Research Report 2014         Reply with quote

Once again I had the honor and pleasure of examining items for the upcoming arms and armor auction at Fischer Auction House in Luzern, Switzerland. As always, there is never enough time to take all the measurements I would like, but I hope you find this information useful.

Special thanks to the staff of Fischer, and especially Dr. Maeder for their wonderful hospitality.

You can find information about the auction at their website here: http://www.fischerauktionen.ch/index.aspx?l=en

You can view great pictures of all items here: http://www.fischerauktionen.ch/auktion/katalog.aspx

You can view all my photos here: http://www.luegisland-scholars.com/apps/photos/

Italian Falchion (second half of the 14th century):

Lot # 1091
Weight – 941g
Blade Length – 53.8cm
Hilt Length – 15cm
Cross Length – 14cm
Blade Width (at the widest point) – 8cm

German Grosses Messer (15th century):

Lot # 1097
Weight – 685g
Hilt Length – 15cm
Blade Length – 75cm
Cross Length – 18cm
Nail Length – 3.6cm

Spatha from northern German region (6th of 7th century):

Lot # 1078
Weight – 684g
Hilt Length – 3.5cm
Blade Length – 72.5cm

German Estoc (First half of the 16th century):

Lot # 1115
Weight – 1343g
Hilt Length – 30.9cm
Blade Length – 99.5cm

Bollock Dagger from Midwestern Europe (16th century):

Lot # 1100
Weight – 206g
Blade Length – 32.5cm
Hilt Length – 11cm

German or Italian Buckler (15th century):

Lot #1214
Weight – 861.5g
Diameter – 33cm
Handle/Boss Length – 12cm
Boss Depth – 2.5cm

I’ll add more details soon, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask and I’ll answer to the best of my ability. If I’m too slow in responding (I’m terrible at keeping up with my threads), please E-mail me at wassomde(at)gmail(dot)com

Regards,
Derek Wassom
Luegisland Scholar
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: Nykøbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 800

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks. What a great collection of weapon with good pictures.

On page 2 in the catalog they actually have a “wurfkreuz“ (throwing cross) Cool
Where these really thrown in battle at people, or are they more like caltrops/krähenfuss??
Maybe thrown in battle before people to step on?

The panzerstecher (armour-piercer) on page 3 is also really interesting.[the one you show as german estoc above] That's one insanely thin bladed 2-handed sword.

Last on page 6 they also have a double headed Dane Axe seemingly intended for warfare, as the axe-blades look thin and are of different sizes. You don't see that very often.

Page 10 a SIG P-210 pistol 700 years special from 1991 with box. Wow
Danish army still uses SIG P-210 since 1949 (just called M/49 Neuhausen up here), so it really Swiss quality.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If that germanic spatha is original, it is a very significant find because of the very well preserved hilt... But I somehow doubt it...
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M. Szewczyk





Joined: 10 Apr 2014

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is the spatha's hilt length given correctly? 3,5 cm is the width of approximately 2 fingers, maybe it was supposed to be 3,5 inches?
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Szewczyk wrote:
Is the spatha's hilt length given correctly? 3,5 cm is the width of approximately 2 fingers, maybe it was supposed to be 3,5 inches?


Overall length is 89.5cm, blade length is 77.2cm, so the hilt (whole, not just gripable area) is 12.3cm.
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That spatha, whether an original or older repro, calls to me. I've had little interest in that era, but if I ever had a piece made from that period, it would have to be based on this. Kinda looks like something our good friend Scott Roush might bring to life Wink.

Once I'm back on my feet financially, this might have to go to the top of my "want" list...
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Michael Harley




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 86

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It certainly looks like the River Scheldt find purportedly published in later editions of Oakeshottes "Archeology of Weapons."

See: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...ilted-seax as posted by forumite Kirk Lee Spencer.



 Attachment: 180.67 KB
Hilt late 5th-early 6th c. River Scheldt find .jpg


Information is not knowledge, Knowledge is not wisdom, Wisdom is not truth - Frank Zappa
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Derek Wassom




Location: Fribourg, Switzerland
Joined: 25 Feb 2004

Posts: 96

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The spatha hilt is possibly original. It shows no signs of being tampered with (pins removed, etc). The horn on the grip was analyzed in a lab and although it couldn't be accurately dated, it was not a modern replacement.
Regards,
Derek Wassom
Luegisland Scholar
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great! That makes me a happy little collector. Wink
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Josh MacNeil




Location: Massachusetts, USA
Joined: 23 Jul 2008

Posts: 197

PostPosted: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone have any more pictures of this spatha? Perhaps some close up shots, or one showing the end of the pommel? Also can anyone tell me what the materials the hilt is composed of?
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Josh MacNeil wrote:
Does anyone have any more pictures of this spatha? Perhaps some close up shots, or one showing the end of the pommel? Also can anyone tell me what the materials the hilt is composed of?


Can't help with pictures, but the translation from the catalog indicates bronze and bovine horn. Here's the pertinent portion, via Google Translate:

Significant marsh, or river find in exceptionally good condition. Vascular parts of bronze combined with cow horn. Knauf Crown in a rounded pyramid shape with circle decorative eyes on the collected baseline. Knauf beams from three oval bronze and two horn plates riveted together. The Middle Bronze platelets as the identically structured guard (L 6.5 cm) decorated with 7 circular eyes between two vertical bars. Grip of two flat-conical horn sleeves with a central knop bronze.

Only thing I cleaned up was it originally said "river Fund".
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a shame they never give detailed view of mail items. The general form of 1246 looks Arabic, rather than German to me.
http://www.fischerauktionen.ch/auktion/objekt...3&l=de

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Fri 12 Sep, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can find more photos in this great album of the auction items:

http://www.luegisland-scholars.com/apps/photo...d=15719248
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Mark Lewis





Joined: 19 Apr 2014

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 359

PostPosted: Sat 11 Oct, 2014 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Harley wrote:
It certainly looks like the River Scheldt find purportedly published in later editions of Oakeshottes "Archeology of Weapons."


Lot 1079 appears to be the Viking sword from the Scheldt also shown in AoW, and reproduced here: http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/A000048.htm

Fischer appears to be unaware of the publication and provenance... stating only that the sword is Anglo-Saxon from a German collection.



 Attachment: 106.72 KB
Fischer 420.1079 (Scheldt, 750-800) [AoW f.26].jpg

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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
You can find more photos in this great album of the auction items:

http://www.luegisland-scholars.com/apps/photo...d=15719248


It looks like this site is no longer extant. Did anyone happen to download the pix from this, especially for the Viking/Anglo Saxon and Spatha swords that were in Oakeshott's AOW?

Also, did anyone download the description for the "Anglo Saxon" sword? The Fischer site no longer seems to have this, either.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,229

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun, 2018 2:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arne G. wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
You can find more photos in this great album of the auction items:

http://www.luegisland-scholars.com/apps/photo...d=15719248


It looks like this site is no longer extant. Did anyone happen to download the pix from this, especially for the Viking/Anglo Saxon and Spatha swords that were in Oakeshott's AOW?

Also, did anyone download the description for the "Anglo Saxon" sword? The Fischer site no longer seems to have this, either.


I have a few pictures, just send me your email.
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are the pictures I've gathered of the spatha. There are a few more, but they will not load (even as "click on it to see it" attachments) due to size restrictions - they are all under 1MB, but likely do not fit the 1280x1024 frame limit. I'll play with them and see if I can get them loaded in a separate post.

In other discussions, the direction of the lower guard pins has been discussed as being "wrong" and suggestive of a fake; other suggestions are that there was a "restoration" and reassemble at some point and the lower guard was put back backwards. I lean towards the latter, but have no hard evidence. Those that argue against the "put back upside down" theory often say that the pins are too big and it wouldn't fit a scabbard properly. I feel that those folks have never seen a scabbard with a notch or cut-out - something which is out there on later pieces, but many of these folks fall into the "absence of extant period evidence equals evidence of absence" camp versus the "we might not have found an exact match to this theory, but that doesn't mean it is not plausible and did not exist at the time - lot's of things get lost in 1,500 years".

Good luck in finding data on the other items. If you happen to run across more on this spatha that isn't in this thread, please post it back - I'd like to reproduce this some day and will take all of the data I can get.



 Attachment: 77.81 KB
Objekt_1_146644_00_700x700.jpg
Close - color - hilt.

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Objekt_2_146644_00_700x700.jpg
Point of weld/repair.

 Attachment: 252.65 KB
Spatha.png
Glamor shots.

 Attachment: 152.86 KB
IMG_0439.JPG
In hand 1.

 Attachment: 149.79 KB
IMG_0440.JPG
In hand 2.

 Attachment: 171.3 KB
IMG_0441.JPG
In hand 3.
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Wed 27 Jun, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More of spatha - reduced size to get to post. Still too big to open in the post, but didn't want to reduce so much that you'd lose all of the resolution.


 Attachment: 390.15 KB
Blade - tip focus. [ Download ]

 Attachment: 282.94 KB
Blade - mid focus. [ Download ]

 Attachment: 351.63 KB
Blade - upper focus. [ Download ]

 Attachment: 272.86 KB
Hilt - guard focus side 2. [ Download ]

 Attachment: 327.93 KB
Hilt- guard focus side 1. [ Download ]

 Attachment: 401.13 KB
Hilt [ Download ]
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Arne G.





Joined: 31 Jul 2014

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu 28 Jun, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies!

By the way, if anyone has details on the "Anglo-Saxon" sword, I could use them to guide my rework of an old Windlass "River Scheldt" sword I obtained recently. Specifically interested in what the grip material is (horn?) and dimensions.
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