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Foong Chen Hong




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 18 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 4:40 am    Post subject: Workshop of Darksword armoury revealed.         Reply with quote

After a long while of their workshop being kept secret and such, they finally release a video of their workshop showing them working on blade and pommel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJlwlqL9wnc

I can't say much for them, but it do regain some of my hope on them.

Descanse En Paz
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like good work to me. I'd buy one........and just might do so. Their Danish two hander looks great. Cool Big Grin ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Ryan Renfro




Location: Reno, NV
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, mate, but two forges, one anvil, no power hammer, and mostly shelves of stock in boxes. Would love to give them the benefit of the doubt, but...


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Antal László




Location: Lymington, Hampshire, UK
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the little step stool under the anvil Happy
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,787

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Discussion with Robert Marks can be found here
http://www.sword-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22867

The video commences at the showroom and then in the shop with a smith checking a hammer woefully inadequate to produce the custom billet they show, also in the introduction phase. Bad editing. For the few minutes of overall shop exposure regarding production, a few seconds of ogling the power hammer might have related well in how their steel blanks might be profiled. Are the blanks profiled in house? Who knows? Several offerings over the years have been all to telling as being cookie cutter examples of flat stock with zero or minimal distal taper. Most particularly those with a relief in the forte/ricasso. Continuing in the shop shots are a pensive owner checking his desktop. Those two moments are useless clutter aside from the world knowing the man cares about something. Quite stern looking.

A segway to a nicely idyllic and informative casting presentation. Truthfully, worth a separate episode. Spoiled only, really, by Eyal again looking overly concerned in inspection (rather than beaming with pride). Mentioned elsewhere are what sword the components are destined for.

Following, more on the forging of a sword. With no narration and only a title as presentation, any are left to their own imaginations. The title was my suggestion, so I don't need to imagine that at all.

Roberts Marks has explained that the video was not produced in order to prove anything. What it will prove is that a viewer is left to their own value of entertainment. What attention it draws will simply either drive some towards, or further away. Overall, I find the video a bit disarrayed and aside from the casting segway, lacking in much content. Previous interviews and ongoing online discourse over the years can guide any really interested. As showmanship, this critic can only rate this performance at two out of five stars.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In a previous discussion here at myArmoury (now removed), there were some answers from Robert Marks that points to little forging going on with the production runs. There was certainly enough shared to generate a hypothesis. Two telling statements were steel sourced from America, and "some sword blanks". It is easy enough then to realize some grinding and assembly may be occurring in the Darksword Armory shop. Darksword Amory will still be appealing to some. Whatever moral grounds one wants to differ on will ultimately be between the manufacturer and buyers.

Cheers

GC
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Tyler Jordan





Joined: 15 Mar 2004

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To be perfectly fair forging isn't necessary to make a good sword with modern homogenous steel and good heat treating, so that may not be much of a factor, provided everything else is good. Of course the extra work involved means distal taper tends to be lacking on swords ground from blanks, and that can be very important for handling unless you're ordering a saber or something. I'm not going to make judgements on how well Darksword can handle this.
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M. Livermore





Joined: 20 Aug 2008

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am nervous about working my blades when they dip into a black heat. Maybe a little bit of straightening, but that looked like a lot of work on cooling stock. Even with a few rounds of normalization I would be crossing my fingers at the quench. That said, I am a real newbie at forging blades and I could be far off the mark. It would be fun to see more about the bronze casting.
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Darksword Armory         Reply with quote

There is a Registry in Quebec which provides public information about companies active on its' territory. One of the items given is the economic sphere of activity. In this matter the company is listed as an import/export business,in the 5199 category, and not in the sphere of transforming metal into cutlery or similar uses , which have a list of numbers in the 3500 to 3600 range.Another source of cross-referencing would be the Occupational Health & Safety Board, where employers are again regrouped by economic activity as it costs much more to insure workers dealing with dangerous materials than office workers or retail salespeople.
I enjoyed the video very much, the showroom is very neat, and the one or two tools available for polishing and sharpening metal would certainly be welcome in any man's workshop. They are far superior than what I have in my basement workshop for personal use. I also enjoyed the tutorial aspects of the lost wax demo, though my daughter had already shown me as much when she was in art school. I am sure those bronze castings will assemble nicely with some pre-exiting bare blades, wherever they come from.

Bon coeur et bon bras
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Tom King




Location: florida
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like more footage of the shop that unfortunate PR rep released a few months back.

What I was looking for, which they demonstrated, was casting (although only brass in the video). My question though is that if they are making all these parts small batch in house, then why are so many of them so poor on the consumer end? And where is their steel casting, which would be rather expansive and inefficient if they were making a guard/pommel or two at a time. Now KOA, SBG, and DSA themselves seem to be the only companies with a large amount of DSA swords, but I'll leave it to personal opinion whether the tools and workshop presented could make the 150k-500k annual profit in $300 swords a few business information sites speculate.

We are still left either believing that DSA produces indian quality swords in canada, or that they import indian quality swords (or sword components) from india.
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Hector A.





Joined: 22 Dec 2013

Posts: 137

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

3min 40s, the furnace is gone! Big Grin

HAHAHAHAHA
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William Swiger




Location: Reston, VA
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They said they would post a video of their shop or whatever you call it. They posted one. From what I saw, much of it was staged for the benefit of the video. They did not show an actual forging operation. They said they only "forge" in batches a couple times a year and the video was made in-between cycles. WTF?!

People should just take the video for what it is. My impression is if you do not show forging your own blades, common sense would tell you it is not part of their operation there. What I really saw in the video was pretty much them assembling, sharpening and buffing and packaging. Some fluff was added of course. My guess is they get the blades already roughly finished and heat treated. They shine them up and sharpen if ordered that way. I personally think the same for the hilts and grips. They clean up the components, assemble and ship.

That is what I think. I could be wrong. They said once they get the sword blanks from the US. I don't really know where they get all the components.

Non Timebo Mala
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: 1:07 vs 3:40         Reply with quote

Hector A. has a great eye for detail... and what a detail ! The title of the video is '' A Day in the life of Darkwood'', and what a difference a day makes. There's a little furnace at 1:07, impressing us all with a nice little fire, and it has disappeared at 3:40, I guess somebody needed it for other purposes ?
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am absolutely sure everyone will read into this video exactly what they DESIRE to read into it... this would be the nature of edain.

If you wish to accumulate DATA - consider looking at this thread, on a foreign board::


http://www.sword-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22867

Here, you will find Canadian Government certification that these items are, at minimum:

"Made in Canada:
1) the last substantial transformation of the good occurred in Canada;
2) at least 51% of the total direct costs of producing or manufacturing the goods have been incurred in Canada"

You will also find several requests for DSA to apply for, and achieve, the "Product of Canada" certification:

:"A Product of Canada claim will not be challenged by the Bureau provided that:
1) the last substantial transformation of the good occurred in Canada; and
2) 98% of the total direct costs of producing or manufacturing the goods have been incurred in Canada."

The "Product of Canada" Certification is far GREATER than anything we have in the US. DSA has claimed they meet this standard (see http://www.sword-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22867). HOWEVER - I have not seen a Government of Canada recognition of this - nor have I seen a "Product of Canada" claim on DSA shipping receipts.

Folks - you are wonderful, but stop bitching in the wind. ANY major government has standards for that governments exported product content. IGNORE the vendor - and start looking at the far larger NATIONAL CERTIFICATIONS. Use Google, and look up the standards enforced by an entire COUNTRY - then demand that products adhere to these - and understand, to what LEVEL?

Canada is not the Republic of Tobago... they are, in fact, BETTER at defining product content than the United States is. When questioning the content of a product approved for export - consider going the extra yard, and asking the exporting country to define their standards. I believe most of us have a computer... perhaps we should USE it.

Now, of course... I totally expect personal vitriol. No problem, insult my family Happy.When you are done? USE THAT THING ON YOUR DESK - please.

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,392

PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've heard it said there is no such thing as bad publicity and it looks like this thread might be helping the promotional video. I'd have never watched the stupid thing without all the discussion in this thread igniting an ember of curiosity. WTF?!
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Darksword Armory         Reply with quote

Jean-Carle Hudon wrote:
There is a Registry in Quebec which provides public information about companies active on its' territory. One of the items given is the economic sphere of activity. In this matter the company is listed as an import/export business,in the 5199 category, and not in the sphere of transforming metal into cutlery or similar uses , which have a list of numbers in the 3500 to 3600 range.Another source of cross-referencing would be the Occupational Health & Safety Board, where employers are again regrouped by economic activity as it costs much more to insure workers dealing with dangerous materials than office workers or retail salespeople.
I enjoyed the video very much, the showroom is very neat, and the one or two tools available for polishing and sharpening metal would certainly be welcome in any man's workshop. They are far superior than what I have in my basement workshop for personal use. I also enjoyed the tutorial aspects of the lost wax demo, though my daughter had already shown me as much when she was in art school. I am sure those bronze castings will assemble nicely with some pre-exiting bare blades, wherever they come from.


I found a code of 6921, which means "Direct Sales". I didn't see anything about manufacturing. Can you point me to where you got your info? Here's where I found mine...

Rechercher une entreprise au registre

Winter is coming
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Aug, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: current registration         Reply with quote

Mike,
there are three listings, two previous and one current. They used to register ''direct sales'' as their economic activity, but the current classification is under import/export as I indicated. The dates/periods covered by the registration are at the end of the line .It seems that DSA has never indicated being a manufacturing business .
Usually manufacturing and transforming raw materials into a finished product require more equipment and manpower than the clerical sales department, so the classification will be that of the more significant activity. On paper, this business represents itself as an import/export business, which used to be a direct sales business.

Bon coeur et bon bras
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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Sun 31 Aug, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sort of a copy surrounding Canadian Govt Certification, and DSA. Please look, as this is likely to apply to ANY exporter of swords, from ANY nation that has a government entity responsible for definitions of native content:

You see, in order to export anything, DSA (or other companies) need SOME LEVEL of certification from their Governments, regarding native content.

This creates a small dilemma for us: has the company applied for NOTHING MORE than they need in order to gain an export license? Or do their products qualify for HIGHER Ratings? We don't know.

What we DO know is nothing more than the "floor" of DSA's Government approved rating - the absolute LOWEST level of part and labor content - as they use the "Made in Canada" wording, they must without DOUBT be at the 53% Canadian Government level of domestic content + labor. Were they not? We COULD file Formal Complaints with the National Government of Canada.

The problem - we do not yet have any DATA to indicate if DSA qualifies for the higher "Product of Canada" rating. It is absolutely possible that they DO, and have chosen to avoid the paperwork. We just don't know.

I have personally encouraged DSA to seek, and gain, the "98% Domestic content and Labor" rating of a "Product of Canada". I believe this would solve many perceived issues with their product line, and HELP the business to achieve success. This line of reasoning should apply to US, Chinese, Indian, etc MFGS.... it removes the particular COMPANY from any suspicion of refinishing foreign imported parts, and places that onus on National organizations.

So - please read that thread at SBG to understand the parameters around these classifications.... they are FLOORS of MINIMUM content. They are not in any way indicative of MAXIMUM content.

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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