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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Discussion for historical accuracy in Total War Rome II Mods Reply to topic
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Are you interested in this concept?
Yes
78%
 78%  [ 15 ]
No
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Perhaps
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 19

Author Message
P. Emerson Humphrey




Location: Oklahoma, U.S.A.
Joined: 22 Feb 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Discussion for historical accuracy in Total War Rome II Mods         Reply with quote

Many modders are striving for historical accuracy and some change the period of the game and though we research I wanted to include this community because it is knowledgeable and questions will come up people rarely ask.
I know it is a game but as a group many modifiers try to limit this aspect and some regions at certain periods are hard to research. Also this brings cultural aspects and what army they would have used, and we try to do as best we can to represent what is known and educated guesses. I believe this would be a good collaboration and feed new debate in this lively community that can only help Mods to show a realistic presentation of the real participants. You could also see it come to fruition and criticize as well as see a good representation of an army little is known of and perhaps grow interest in representing them when you may not have with kits.
I'd like to know if this is received well and has your support as a community in the spirit of common goals and love of history.
Idea

If enough are interested I will outline the areas and period in question. First is 101 AD but includes the whole map and potential for what happened over 100 years. Right now the true nature of the Dacians, like largest tribes and known variations of Thracian, Scythian and Celts in the region. Including Getic Dacians and others that survived to this point.
Any information is a good start especially archaeological and any written records from non Roman sources as well. I know this is hard to pin down but this is a very ambitious undertaking as the game normally starts in BC 272 so everything is being changed. The map ends in the SE at NW India over to Britain and includes North Africa. So you have a scope of the task I'm not asking you all to do our research but at points it would help. . I hope this interests you and there are many cultures to go over.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep, 2014 2:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm on the fence with this one. Seeking historical feedback is obviously a good idea and well meant, but implementing it into the design of the game is another thing entirely. I've participated in the design of historical games before and there's always one important sticking point in that we always have to invent some things out of thin air or rely on pure guesswork since a finished game demands definite decisions, while in reality we only have limited information about historical military matters and in many cases (especially for the ancient period) this information is not enough for us to definitely say that this or that troop type looked or fought in a certain way.
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P. Emerson Humphrey




Location: Oklahoma, U.S.A.
Joined: 22 Feb 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
I'm on the fence with this one. Seeking historical feedback is obviously a good idea and well meant, but implementing it into the design of the game is another thing entirely. I've participated in the design of historical games before and there's always one important sticking point in that we always have to invent some things out of thin air or rely on pure guesswork since a finished game demands definite decisions, while in reality we only have limited information about historical military matters and in many cases (especially for the ancient period) this information is not enough for us to definitely say that this or that troop type looked or fought in a certain way.


That is an annoying factor. I mean even the original game has obvious guess work. Mainly the factions that will be playable and setting the stage for what happened with Rome is a big focus point. Also you have to decide to designate who needs to be a faction and who is absorbed and represented with troops recruited in that region. Also with the Dacian kingdom, it is clearly not one tribe and part of the fun is figuring out a balance that matches what is known up to that point. I mean they are a blend of Thracian, Sarmatian and Celt with possible Greek influence. I've found you get a sense of reality when you start getting close. One issue with this kind of force is their tendency not to fight pitched battles as much as hit and run, then hide out on a mountain. That really can't be portrayed since there are agents to act in lieu of guerrilla warfare. They did face the Romans though. Based on research on Thrace for the normal period I''ve helped make a competitive but a realistic Odrysian line up, which was interestingly unconventional compared to light hoplite being the basis of most armies.
Since this is a mod it will whittle away at the guess work and try to keep true unknown areas to the basics and avoid fantasy.
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P. Emerson Humphrey




Location: Oklahoma, U.S.A.
Joined: 22 Feb 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 01 Sep, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: What would help now.         Reply with quote

At this particular time I'm assessing the map for corrections and improvements. I don't think we'll change province borders since they actually seem relevant over time because of landscape. So any links that have archaeological regions of different cultures would help. I've found one but there may be sources closer to real dig info than a map. Really anything over the Balkans and Black sea would help. General research sites would help, you can only get so far from sources on wikipedia.
Probably troop differences comparing BC 272-172 to 101-201 AD for Rome will be first and branch out. The differences in those periods will be the main factor since anything new will have to be made for the game. Once we get going with conversation it doesn't have to stick to game stuff because it might help in some way unforeseen. I'll post map screen shots later on and still later troops and an overview of the construction tree and how it effects the game normally and how it could be improved. This mod is called Trajan's wars, a different period mod has been done set in the time of Constantine. There aren't any other real total overhauls in a new time.
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P. Emerson Humphrey




Location: Oklahoma, U.S.A.
Joined: 22 Feb 2009

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu 09 Oct, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: New good news.         Reply with quote

The creators of Rome II made a second campaign set in 41 BC which should make the mod much easier. Any additions to the Dacians can be researched but aren't as necessary as most of any guessing has been done by Creative Assembly, so it is a matter of correcting things instead of a huge onus on us to make guesses.

Actually that is a side project and I'm normally helping research to flesh out armies of factions in 272 BC. To make them less uniform and add a better playing experience, so lesser known and rarer units are welcome as a method of staggering the unit costs and ability to have an adaptable roster for the enemy but within the confines of what was, not what if. A rarely used warrior type may have been useful against armies they didn't face and been used more. Still they existed so it isn't what if and presents a realistic option to the player of choice in tactics.
Sometimes these are obvious missing units based on a factions culture.
Many times most of the army is fine but some don't look like veterans when they should, or the shield patterns are too uniform and there are many options to make it look like each man has a story and if you know enough you may be able to place his home town or at least region.
We revisit and add detail as we research and release each faction and they will be compiled and probably made even less uniform. I'll ask specific things as I get stumped on a troop type and present illustrations to see what is kept or gone in the time if someone knows. We know some differences of the Antigonid Makedonians from those of Alexander, but the finer points may need discussion, like which uniform is a better guess and what may not be right about it. I mean I know the colors were tacky by todays standards but there are many degrees of this.
The colors are vivid because a separate mod can be desaturated for those who want real dyes.
Also I'll specify if it is meant to represent a poorer class or an elite unit and in between.
Some units will have shin-guards along with bare shins individually for example.
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