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Luke Adams




Location: NYC
Joined: 10 May 2014

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Grozer Bio-Composite Bows         Reply with quote

So, I noticed on KOA that they offer bows with different numbers (e.g. 35# draw). Does this number denote something special about its model type? I'm honestly a novice when it comes to archery, so if there's someone out there who can explain the specs on these bows to me, I'd really appreciate it. I'm looking to get a Mongolian horsebow, but I'm not sure which one to buy.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being lazy or anything, I just thought I'd ask.
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Ryan McLaurin




Location: California
Joined: 12 May 2008

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe it's the draw weight of the bow in pounds.
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Josh Smith




Location: Rhode Island
Joined: 15 Sep 2013

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

draw weight is the amount of force needed to draw the bow. 35 pounds of force, 50 pounds, so on and so forth. the more force needed to draw means the more force it will fire with.

"Draw Weight is the peak amount of weight an archer will pull while drawing the bow."


a bit more information, lots out there through the google. (note this link is for recurve bows, and hunting, but the same principles apply)
http://www.bestrecurvebowguide.com/recurve-bo...ng-weight/


Last edited by Josh Smith on Mon 12 May, 2014 6:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Luke Adams




Location: NYC
Joined: 10 May 2014

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ryan McLaurin wrote:
I believe it's the draw weight of the bow in pounds.


Ah, does the draw weight determine the power going into the shot? Like will a larger draw weight yield a farther shot?
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not quite. Three things determine the energy that gets stored in the bow when you draw it: the draw weight, the distance over which it is drawn (i.e., the draw length minus the brace height), and the shape of the force-distance curve. For the mathematically inclined, the stored energy is the integral of the force-distance curve. For a straight-line curve, the stored energy is (draw weight)*(draw length - brace height)/2.

How much of that energy gets delivered to the arrow depends on the efficiency of the bow, which, in turn, depends on the weight of the arrow. Especially with traditional materials, arrows can need to be heavier to survive being shot from high draw weight bows, and you can find that you get more energy in the arrow from a high draw weight bow, but very little extra range.

Note that the draw weight is usually given at 28" (i.e., the force needed to pull the string back to 28" from the grip). Bows normally used with thumb draw are usually drawn further; the draw weight is sometimes given at 31" or 32".

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Luke Adams




Location: NYC
Joined: 10 May 2014

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! You've got it down to a science, don't you? So does that mean 42# would translate to a draw weight of 42 lbs when pulled at the max draw distance (which I believe you said was usually 28" away from the bow)?
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Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
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PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I highly recommend you stay away from Bio-Composite bows. They're very sensitive to humidity and generally temperamental. You'll get a very close experience with the fiberglass bows, and they're much more stable and can be over dawn without doing damage (though I recommend you never over draw your bow as it will eventually cause damage). the bottom line is the fiberglass will be much more forgiving to a beginner.
Winter is coming
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luke Adams wrote:
Wow! You've got it down to a science, don't you? So does that mean 42# would translate to a draw weight of 42 lbs when pulled at the max draw distance (which I believe you said was usually 28" away from the bow)?


42 lbs force, when pulled to 28".

You'll find lots of specialised jargon used in archery. Introductory books tend to explain a lot of the terms important to beginners, so it might be worthwhile looking to see what books are to be had in your local library. Or chance your luck with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_archery_terms

For a little bit of experience with basics such as how to shoot a bow, how to string and unstring a bow, what draw weight are you comfortable with, what is your ideal draw length (which translates into "how long should your arrows be?"), what arrows can be used with what bow, archery clubs often offer introductory courses for beginners. If it saves you from buying the wrong equipment, it can pay for itself very easily.

Alas, most beginner courses don't teach traditional Asian archery techniques, such as thumb draw (and of course, don't involve horses).

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Luke Adams




Location: NYC
Joined: 10 May 2014

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue 13 May, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Capanelli wrote:
I highly recommend you stay away from Bio-Composite bows. They're very sensitive to humidity and generally temperamental. You'll get a very close experience with the fiberglass bows, and they're much more stable and can be over dawn without doing damage (though I recommend you never over draw your bow as it will eventually cause damage). the bottom line is the fiberglass will be much more forgiving to a beginner.


I definitely understand that a fiberglass bow is a more suitable choice for a beginner to practice with. The only bows that I've practiced with up to now were fiberglass. It's just that I wanted one of these more historical bows to work up to. Happy

And thanks for your help Timo, I'll definitely make sure to check out those resources.
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Lukasz Papaj




Location: Malbork, Poland
Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed 14 May, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Capanelli wrote:
I highly recommend you stay away from Bio-Composite bows. They're very sensitive to humidity and generally temperamental. You'll get a very close experience with the fiberglass bows, and they're much more stable and can be over dawn without doing damage (though I recommend you never over draw your bow as it will eventually cause damage). the bottom line is the fiberglass will be much more forgiving to a beginner.


to quote the maker
Quote:
4. Biocomposite laminated bows.

New technology.
Actually it combines the laminated, the TRH laminated, the TRH Extra II laminated bows.
And to some extent the extra III bows as well. The bows made by this technology consist of the following materials: the middle layers of wood, the inner layer of pressed horn, while the outer layer of pressed sinew plate. These two layers are glued to the wooden plate by modern glue and the glued layer gets a fibre strengthening. Due to these biocomposite materials, the modern technology and materials these bows are faster than the simple laminated bows. They are appreciably soft, have long draw length and without any resonance when drawing.
These bows give almost the same shooting experience than a hornbow and even their appearance is similar, although the biocomposite bows are flatter.

http://www.grozerarchery.com/techinfo.htm

I personally own hungarian biocomposite for about 5 years now, and experienced no problems or quirks whatsoever. YMMV though. http://www.grozerarchery.com/htm/magyar/magyar3.htm

Grozer do have fibreglass counterparts to most of the offerings though, and models with different ratios of classical and modern features. Only those marked "EXTRA III COMPOSITE" are fully natural (as in horn and sinew)
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Edina Jakab





Joined: 24 Jul 2014

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu 24 Jul, 2014 3:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Grozer New Laminated bow could be a good choice instead of the Biocomposite or the base bow. It seems like a biocomposite one but it mades from a sintetic material plate and bamboo lamination, and i think through this technic could be make the fastest bow, that bows are faster than a huntig reflex bow. You can curve it any direction, you don't have to unstring them slowly, you can leave them string on, it won't twist in a warm temperature. Other bow manufacturer also try to make the bows resistant of twisting/america manufacturer/ but the problem with thoose bows the speed, thoose are slower then a modern reflex bow.
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Brian Nelson




Location: Houghton, MI
Joined: 17 Mar 2012

Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 24 Jul, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have owned two biocomposite Grozers, a short turkish at 57# and an assyrian at 75#. The assyrian is the fastest (non-compound) bow I've ever shot or even seen. You really can't go wrong with the biocomposites. They're more expensive, but offer slightly better performance and are vastly more beautiful. Just make sure you know what you're doing when you string them as if you do it wrong you can cause too much asymmetry.

Edit to add: I've used these bows in 100 Fahrenheit at 80 percent humidity and also in sub-zero Fahrenheit conditions. Never had a problem.
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R. Kolick





Joined: 04 Feb 2012

Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul, 2014 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

there is one thing i would like to put in i have seen a lot of the bio composite bows from Grozer (a friend of mine owns at least 5 that he's shown me) and they all shoot fine although he had some of them examined by Jaap Koppedrayer he was told that they have a layer of fiberglass in them that adds to the power and durability that the relatively small amount of horn can't.
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David Theaton




Location: AZ
Joined: 06 Oct 2014

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: It definitely refers to pounds.         Reply with quote

That is telling you the bow's draw weight. 35 pounds is what it stands for. That is a good bow weight if you're starting out so that you can exercise and work those muscles out. However, if you have been shooting before, then possibly go with a bit heavier one, maybe 40-45 pounds. There are a few tricks you can do to determine your draw weight which you can google "determine bow draw weight" and I'm sure you'll find something. Best of luck!
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S. Issara





Joined: 01 Oct 2014

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a beginner, I would recommend a low poundage KAYA KTB or similar models which you can use for thumb draw training. They are cheap and more forgiving in term of maintenance.
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Guy Bayes




Location: United States
Joined: 07 Oct 2012

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed 08 Oct, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So I am a halfway decent archer, I can do pie-plates at 30 meters with a barebow, not winning any tournaments or anything. I have also made about every mistake you can make learning to shoot (-:

For a beginner it depends a lot on what you want to accomplish

If you are interested in shooting accurately with a traditional bow but you are ok shooting it western style, then you probably want to start with an extremely light recurve (say 35lbs tops) and a clicker and some lessons. Nice thing about modern recurves is you can switch the limbs out on them as you get stronger without spending a fortune

Later you can transition to a horsebow after you have built up proper form and technique

Lessons REALLY help. I've know people who take lessons who after three months are outshooting people who have self taught for five years. The value is not so much having someone show you what to do, as someone watching you do it and telling you where you are messing up your form. That can be really hard to self daignose

A LOT of people get interested in archery, shoot for a bit, and then get discouraged and quit because they are not progressing or actually regressing. Getting past these plateaus has a lot to do with how you practice and lessons help there too

If you want to shoot eastern style that means thumb ring and likely no lessons. Probably start with a cheap horsebow and set your personal expectation that you are going to ramp slower then the people around you and try not to beat yourself up about it. I have no idea how you are going to learn proper technique maybe videos?

whatever you do though don't spend a lot on your initial kit. You will outgrow your first bow and and destroy your first fifty arrows pretty fast. Also you will suck so bad initially that the different between a topline bow and a middle of the road one won't be noticed
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