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Ethmundo Rosales




Location: az
Joined: 10 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: grosse messer         Reply with quote

I have been looking at grosse messer's online and the CS looks like and Albion makes one and I don't want to pay 1k for a grosse messer. What does anyone think about the CS grosse messer? Any other makers out there?

Thanks in advance.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_cs_mess.html
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
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PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've owned a CS. Sturdily built - overbuilt, actually. Completely ahistorical. If you're just interested in chopping things, it's fine. If you're looking for an historical example, this isn't a good choice. Sold mine off to another forumite to become a project blade.

I presently have the Albion Knecht (Mk II) and absolutely love it! Well designed; well balanced; manageable single-handed, but devastating when used two-handed. However, since that is well above your preferred price-point, you may want to check Armory Marek. He has several choices for historically accurate langesmessers. I haven't seen his price list in a while, but my recollection is that you can get in reasonably well under the $1,000 mark. Once I'm able to get back into collecting, I will likely commission something from him. Very fond of his use of bone & antler for the grips.

Best of luck!
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Jeroen T




Location: Holland
Joined: 23 Oct 2013

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PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the CS Grosse Messer, a friend of mine has one and i cut with it once a year at a sword gathering.

For drills and training itīs not the best sword but still i find the handling pretty good and itīs a joy to cut with.
Keep in mind that itīs a big sword and although i donīt find it heavy itīs far from light.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 1:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a nice kriegsmesser in stock at KoA by Nielo Swords: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...nge+Messer
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Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
There is a nice kriegsmesser in stock at KoA by Nielo Swords: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...nge+Messer



That looks pretty nice - especially at the price-point.
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That sword from Nielo is a Swiss saber and not a lange or grosse messer... Messer have slab tang construction. Arma Bohemia also makes a beautiful messer
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Jason Elrod




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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christopher Treichel wrote:
That sword from Nielo is a Swiss saber and not a lange or grosse messer... Messer have slab tang construction. Arma Bohemia also makes a beautiful messer


I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't call this a swiss saber. I think Nielo just cut a few corners. In fact I think I have a pic of the original Langes Messer this is based on. I'll check to see if I can find it when I get home.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Elrod wrote:
Christopher Treichel wrote:
That sword from Nielo is a Swiss saber and not a lange or grosse messer... Messer have slab tang construction. Arma Bohemia also makes a beautiful messer


I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't call this a swiss saber. I think Nielo just cut a few corners. In fact I think I have a pic of the original Langes Messer this is based on. I'll check to see if I can find it when I get home.


The term "Swiss Saber" really is more of a modern-age term and so doesn't have a definition contemporary to the antique pieces that it supposedly defines. Having said that, like Christopher I also prefer to only call weapons with slab-tang construction messers and those with other forms of hilt construction as various types of other sword definitions. The subject is not very clear.

The item in question is labeled as a Langes Messer by the Rothernburg museum and so that's good enough for me.

Langes Messer from the Rothenburg Collection, circa 1500-1525



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NS012_3_l.jpg
Lange Messer by Nielo of the Czech Republic

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Langes Messer from the Rothenburg Collection, circa 1500-1525. [ Download ]

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lutel has some interesting offerings for messers and the like:

http://www.lutel-handicraft.com/?p=productsMore&iProduct=42

http://www.lutel-handicraft.com/?p=productsMore&iProduct=44

http://www.lutel-handicraft.com/?p=productsMore&iProduct=45

Please see this hands-on review from Bill Grandy:

Lutel 10006 Two-Handed Saber

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Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I owned a messer from Lutel. It was the first model that Nathan linked. I really liked it. I thought it was a great deal for the price. Very solidly made and felt absolutely great in either one hand or two. I honestly liked it better than my (customized) Albion Knecht. It was a bit more user friendly in my opinion. Of course, that is subjective...anyway, the Lutel offering is a good piece, that's my real point...
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 10 May, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, for the price, I couldn't resist trying out the Nielo sword. I've been meaning to pick up something in this style up for a while but haven't since it has been more of a peripheral interest. I'll let you guys know what I think when it arrives.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 10 May, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian Hutchison wrote:
Well, for the price, I couldn't resist trying out the Nielo sword. I've been meaning to pick up something in this style up for a while but haven't since it has been more of a peripheral interest. I'll let you guys know what I think when it arrives.


Nice! I was tempted, too, but I'm really needing to downsize, not add! I'm looking forward to reading your impression of it.

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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

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PostPosted: Tue 13 May, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

for historical examples please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?...ght=messer

best,
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Dan Lorenz





Joined: 26 May 2014

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grosse Messer Hunting Sword. Made by Scorpion Swords & Knives. i like that kind of sword.


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Dan Lorenz
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M. Livermore





Joined: 20 Aug 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A bit of necromancy, but I'm curious, Ian, if you have any thoughts on the sword.
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have you looked at the messers and falchions being made by Baltimore Knife & Sword? Not very historic, but built like tanks, and I'm sure you could get one sharpened. They are relatively inexpensive and guaranteed. Just a thought. ....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Dec, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Livermore wrote:
A bit of necromancy, but I'm curious, Ian, if you have any thoughts on the sword.


Hi,

Sorry, I never wrote a dedicated review but I've commented about it in other threads.

Overall the balance is good, the sword works well in either one or two hands.

The guard is very well executed for the price. However, the blade thickness is too regular (not enough distal taper), and thin for my tastes. It is very flexible (whippy even, smacking the pommel can make it wobble like a saw blade). The blade also has a secondary bevel, and spots where it was unevenly (or not) sharpened.

The fullers were done by hand and a little wavy, which I think is great; just like the original. However, they aren't as deep or as well-defined as the original.

The grip wrap was only glued in place and the ends did not join up well, it came loose and I had to re-glue it after a year or so.

In summary, for the price, I think it was a good value. As with the other Nielo swords I've seen, the execution of the guard was much nicer than the blade. I think this might be because he uses standard stock, and just removes material to make his blades (conjecture). At times, I think of having someone else make another, stiffer blade and just recycling the hilt components; but at the cost of a suitable custom blade, one might as well go the whole distance and get an entirely new piece.

I've got another messer from Pavel Moc coming soon which I'll try to remember to post about. I'd really like to try one from either Marek or Lutel in the future as well.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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