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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 5:48 am    Post subject: Image of a 14th C Sword with Finger Ring         Reply with quote

I remember seeing a number of antique swords with finger rings and modern reproductions of similar swords said to date to the 14th century. At the time, I remember being quite surprised, because I did not associate finger rings as belonging to swords this early in time.

But, sure enough, as I was browsing Manuscript Miniatures, I found a superb example. Assuming the manuscript dating is correct, this image is from circa 1377 to 1400. Notice that the sword in the image is quite unusual in appearance as well; it almost looks to have a hollow ground cross section with fullers, like Albion's Oakeshott sword.


BNE MSS 10134 (2) Grant Cronica de Espanya
Folio 15r
Dating 1377-1396
From Aragon, Spain
Holding Institution Biblioteca Nacional de España



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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,218

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting sword. Looks like a fullered XVIII or maybe XVI with hollowgrind and quite a long fuller. The picture does look like late 14th or early 15th century style...
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,260

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The dating is fairly firm, as it depicts the Grand Master of the Hospitallers, by whom the work was commissioned.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4200/13149/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Heredia
Quote:
Juan Fernández de Heredia (c. 1310 – 1396) was the Grand Master of the Knights Hospitaller from 24 September 1377 to his death. His tenure was occupied by the "affair of Achaea." He was also a great patron of the translation and composition of historiographical works in the Aragonese language and a counsellor to two Kings of Aragon.


Another probable late-14th century example:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4020/11413/

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
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Posts: 600

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great work folks! Thanks for sharing.

We've been working on a laser cut version of the double finger ring guard to mod our current practice blades for Bolognese practice. Great to know this feature existed forty years or more before we had assumed. Cool
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Lee Pupo




Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: 30 Mar 2014

Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To add to the discussion, here's a depiction of Saint Paul, by Bernardo Daddi, in 1333. When I saw this in the National Gallery of Art in Washington DC, I couldn't help but photograph it. I thought that having Paul finger the ricasso was a very nice touch on the part of the artist. I'm sure that more knowledgeable members already know about this (thearma.org says that it was done in ancient times), but it goes to show that people were thinking about techniques that we might associate with later masters well before the surviving Renaissance manuals that many of us study today.


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Saint Paul.png


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Saint Paul 2.png

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Justin H. Núñez




Location: Hyde Park, UT
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember reading in "Archaeology of Weapons" that "fingering" has been done since the BC, not constantly nor consistently in every culture through every time period mind you, but it would not surprise me that it would be found earlier than we usually think.
"Nothing in fencing is really difficult, it just takes work." - Aldo Nadi
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 12 May, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Please note: the original topic of the thread is swords with finger rings, and not fingering the blade.
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Radovan Geist




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Posts: 358

PostPosted: Tue 20 May, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
while looking for something in my computer, I´ve found this interesting "basilard-type sword" with a finger ring. It´s from Hermann Historica, auction No 47, Lot No. 477.
Description says it´s Italian, middle 14th century, and as its total length is 102,5 cm, it would probably classify as a "sword".
I have the whole sheet with more details (and could send it by PM), but it´s too big to post it here.



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