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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

PostPosted: Wed 07 May, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Help needed - How to make Horseshoe Chape?         Reply with quote

Recently, I had to make a horseshoe chape.
The result I wanted to achieve was similar to this one
http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/sword-scabbards/al...-chape.htm
made by Tod.

Although I've tried several times, the result was always away from satisfying - it was one really wide U-letter shape. Interestingly, I have the feeling I was just a step from what I wanted, but regardless my approach I've never achieved good, well-circled U-shape.
What I know now, is that I surely need REALLY small ball-peen hammer with diameter no more than 10-12 mm - my smallest available is about 16 mm; but would it be enough? Any attempts to find some good tutorials in the Web gave no result.

So, any advise and tips will be highly valuable and appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have not done what I'm about to describe - yet....

In the past, I've used a hydraulic press to curve a longer piece of sheet metal into a long "C" section. I've then curved this by hand into the desired "U / V" shape.

BUT - I've been toying with the use of a tubing bender, and the right gauge steel tube. This would yield a well curved TUBE, which I would then carefully cut with a dremmel wheel to produce a well curved "U channel". Not sure if anyone else has tried this, and not certain how well it would work.

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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 10:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To take a piece "U" in cross section and curve it along it's long axis requires shrinking the surface area of the inside edges. The metalsmithing term for this is raising. You will need a mandrel or a stake with a surface or portion of surface approximating the curve of the finished form. If you bend a curved surface like this, the inside edge will compress and wrinkle. slowly upsetting or compressing these wrinkles over a stake is the way to get to where you want to go. Sketch below.



-Adair
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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, if it still does matter, my approach to the problem was as follows:
* Cut a strip of sheet metal with the appropriate width and center-lines were marked
** Using ball-peen hammer started to work it from the inside; this was made on a very small depression over the log. The work started from the very center of the strip and gradually proggressed to the BOTH ends
*** Some final touches in order to straighten the lines

I think I really needed some mandrel for the final touches, but never made one.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm glad you came up with a system that worked for you. My only concern from your description is that you may have thinned the material where you want it to be as thick as possible. Then again, for something the size of this piece it may not matter at all.

-A.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
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Posts: 601

PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Adair Orr wrote:
Sketch below.
*snipped*
-Adair


Great job explaining the process with a sketch!

Unfortunately making a mandrel for each scabbard is a little annoying after a while. I've got five at this point and have to make another shortly for a rondel dagger sheath. Wink
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M. Adair Orr





Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"[i]Unfortunately making a mandrel for each scabbard is a little annoying[/i]"

One doesn't necessarily need a mandrel identical in form. In fact, sometimes too close of a match impedes the ability to move the metal where desired. A stake with the approximate curvature of the area being worked is all that is needed. For something so small suitable stakes could be made from scrap and held in a vise.
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ha! They're all from offcuts. Its just that every commission seems to have a different profile. The dagger mandrel might just be a flattened and ground bar offcut. Won't get at that until next week at the earliest.

I have reused one mandrel several times. As you say it doesn't have to be a perfect fit. Now if I could get better at making those little rounded tips... ;-)
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Boris Bedrosov
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Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

PostPosted: Sat 17 May, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Recently, the customer I make scabbard for, sent me a chape made by Tod (the same as shown on the link).

I've examined it quite carefully for a couple of days, using some reverse-engineering methods and the only possible (for me) sequence to had been made was as follows:
1. starting with a metal strip a C-shape half-tube is made (or at least a tube is cut in halves)
2. some initial bendind (with a lot of wrinckles as a result Wink )
3. heavy work on the appropriate mandrel, until those wrinkles disappear and the chape takes the desired form
4. finishing touches - final shaping of the contours, sanding and polishing

Or, this sequence is very, very similar to one shown on the sketch posted by Adair.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 01 Jun, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That makes sense. Probably requires quite a bit of hot work to get a smooth final result.
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Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Mon 02 Jun, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't know about Tod, but when I have to make one of those, I make a tinfoil/tape template on the scabbard, use that to create a pattern for half of the chape, replicate that twice in metal, beat to shape on a sandbag, join the two metal halves together and then grind/file/sand to finish.

Or I make a model of it in milliput and send it off to be cast.

Option II is a damned sight easier.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jun, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The answer is: raising.

On a small stake with a small hammer with a small pair of tongs.

Maybe you can experiment with very thin metal. You don't even have to heat it.

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Harry Marinakis




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PostPosted: Thu 04 Sep, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for the information, just what I am looking for.
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