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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Wed 07 May, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Tutonic knight kit         Reply with quote

Hello all,

I've recently had finished my harness that is dated for the year 1410-1420 and am wanting to attend the battle of Grunwald/Tannenberg and would like to be a knight of the Tutonic order Big Grin

I've documented everything with my harness (armour) to fit within the period of that battle, but I've been having a difficult time documenting what sort of surcoat/jupon they would have worn over it. I've seen several images from the reenactment, but I'd like to find some original sources and go from there.

(I'm the guy in the black and gold armour in the images)

Thanks in advance!!

-Reece



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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Teutonic knight kit         Reply with quote


So you're the one in the black and gold armour. And you have only one leg. Were you hit by a car, Reece? I'm sorry to hear that.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Frederik K.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Mar 2011

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, as your armour isn't very "german" for the period of 1410-1420 i would recommend a more western surcot for going not as a member of the order, but as a asociated knight of france england etc.
But if you want to do a member of the order, the closest source might be for example the effigy of von Liebenstein:

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/2630/2320/
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fredrick,

Yes it isn't, as I've documented it mostly off of English and French sources, but I can always get a different style visor to give my kit a more ' German ' style and the surcoat would cover my curaiss and spaulders, depending on what style I go for.

My legs and arms are floating articulation, which from I've seen is a very German thing to do.


-Reece
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Foong Chen Hong




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 18 May 2013
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 150

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love that even with a single leg, it doesn't stop you from doing what you love, keep up the good work
Descanse En Paz
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Ryan S.





Joined: 04 May 2012

Posts: 132

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Frederik K. wrote:
Well, as your armour isn't very "german" for the period of 1410-1420 i would recommend a more western surcot for going not as a member of the order, but as a asociated knight of france england etc.
But if you want to do a member of the order, the closest source might be for example the effigy of von Liebenstein:

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/2630/2320/


Would English and French knights fight with the Teutonic Order, and if so, why only as an associated knight?

I do think though, that the gold is inappropriate for a warrior monk who took a vow of poverty.
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu 08 May, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Tutonic knight kit         Reply with quote

Well yes, but I chose that route cu it was seen a lot in the historical art and not done very often by reenactors. If I make the surcoat right, it'll cover up the spaulders and upper cannons pretty well, were you'll only see the couters and vambraces.

But I'd be interested in hearing how I may modify the kit I currently have to fit with the role...

-Reece



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Martin Kealey




Location: Georgia, USA
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Teutonic Knight         Reply with quote

Just out of curiosity; when were you planning on attending the annual Grunwald re-enactment? I myself am going in 2016.
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Frederik K.




Location: Germany
Joined: 16 Mar 2011

Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri 09 May, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the history of the order in the late 14th is a very difficult matter... as for the armour: we can see as early as the late 1390s the development of a distinctive "german" style that is based on more than just special form of visor. although there is always a percentage of more westernish individuums. it isnt a rule already in the 14th century (still to come) but the area of recruiting new members is focussed on the areas of the empire (whether you would take knights of the alsace or lothringen as modern "french" or not) the point of the gilding is dificult to answer for the icoographic sources fpr knigghts of the order in this time frame are more than rare, and in most cases do not offer great details or even colours. what we know is that armour and fashoin most probably did follow the profan knights, and that, by written accounts, the RULE began to be undermined (play-debts of knights and officers, apes on the marienburg etc etc.) so that guilding of amrourparts might be plausible, but you could only wear it as a academic construct never a reconstruction
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Fri 16 May, 2014 6:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ryan S. wrote:
Would English and French knights fight with the Teutonic Order, and if so, why only as an associated knight?


Why not? By the 15th century, the original Crusades to the Levant were no more, and the Crusader States had all been co-opted or conquered (with the exception of certain Hospitaller and feudal holdouts in the Mediterranean islands such as Cyprus and Rhodes). The choices left for nobles who wanted to go crusading were Spain, the Balkans (where one such attempt failed at Nicopolis, well within living memory), or the Baltic (where, ironically, most of the opponents left to fight were Christians of one stripe or another). Henry V of England took an English force on an expedition to the Baltic, where the Teutonic knights remarked upon the efficiency of the English longbowmen he brought along.

As for the associated status, this page summarises it better than I can.


Quote:
I do think though, that the gold is inappropriate for a warrior monk who took a vow of poverty.


But it'd be perfectly appropriate for a lay knight, whether the Order's vassal or a foreigner who came along for the ride.
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