Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Ring-Hilt Spathae? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Marc Lauterbach





Joined: 22 Jan 2010

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Ring-Hilt Spathae?         Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm curious, does anyone have any knowledge of the timeframe occupied by ring-hilted spathae in period? I am NOT referring to ring-pommeled Migration-Era swords, but of swords that have a ring for their pommel. As best as I can ascertain, this is a Sarmatian style and first appears around the late 2nd century AD, but do we have an end date? Thanks!

See example:



Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,757

PostPosted: Wed 09 Apr, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A quick look in Miks´ "Studien zur römischen Schwertbewaffnung in der Kaiserziet" puts a period to late 2nd and 3rd century as period of use for the ring pommeled swords.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Martin Moser





Joined: 13 Feb 2014
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu 10 Apr, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It seems to have been used especially by beneficiarii, i.e. soldier on special duty like policing, customs etc. Their gravestones and symbols often show the ring pommel sword. You can see it also on the chape I made a few years ago when you look closely:
http://sutor.jimdo.com/escapees/roman/thekenbeschlag-scabbard/

Cheers,
Martin

https://www.facebook.com/leatherworkthroughtheages/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Márk György Kis





Joined: 02 Jul 2013

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu 10 Apr, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There were ring-hilted swords even in the times of Caesar...

Source: Miks
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Marc Lauterbach





Joined: 22 Jan 2010

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 10 Apr, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the information! Any chance they could have gone into the 4th or 5th centuries? Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message
William M




Location: Buckinghamshire , England
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri 11 Apr, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, don't mean to be a stickler but would be nice if when you use my photos you reference or contact me.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Mike Zielinski




Location: Lublin, Poland
Joined: 04 Oct 2010

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello everyone Happy

These sword type is called "ringknaufschwert" in german mean 'ring-pommel sword'.
They were addicted to Sarmatians but in 2nd century AD that type of swords were known
from roman iconography (for example see "Rome and the Sword" by Simon James published in 2011).
What is very interesting we (archeologists) had some examples from Barbaricum - moslty from Germany
and one from Poland Big Grin Here it simple link to get more info about these sword type:

https://www.google.pl/search?client=opera&q=ringknaufschwert&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

To find more literature give me private message Wink

Regards,
Mike from Poland

Stand your ground and fight,
Stand and do your best,
You must be hard as nails,
And kill with sword and hand,
So if you would be the hero
This is your chance.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Marc Lauterbach wrote:
Thanks for the information! Any chance they could have gone into the 4th or 5th centuries? Thanks!


No.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Marc Lauterbach





Joined: 22 Jan 2010

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William M wrote:
Hi, don't mean to be a stickler but would be nice if when you use my photos you reference or contact me.


I'm sorry, it was literally the first image that came up when I was trying to find a picture of what I was talking about. Had I know it was yours, I surely would have given you the credit. Cheers.
View user's profile Send private message
Marc Lauterbach





Joined: 22 Jan 2010

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Marc Lauterbach wrote:
Thanks for the information! Any chance they could have gone into the 4th or 5th centuries? Thanks!


No.


Matt, that's a very definitive statement. Any chance I could get you to expound on that? Do you know the general dates of the archaeological examples of extant swords of this type? Not being sarcastic, but genuinely curious. Thanks!
View user's profile Send private message
Márk György Kis





Joined: 02 Jul 2013

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun 13 Apr, 2014 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Checked Miks. For Roman context the definite timespan is the 2nd century. Everything before or after is questionable, though they are there.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Mon 27 Oct, 2014 5:36 am    Post subject: Ring-Hilt Spathae?         Reply with quote

I myself never knew that a Sarmatian sword had been in service with Roman legionaries when they occupied Britain.
Picture below shows one recognizable ring-hilt spatha at the bottom of 5 long sword blades on display at the Archaeological Museum of Schloss Eggenberg in Graz, Austria.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Ring-Hilt Spathae?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum