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I Krumpl




Location: New York
Joined: 19 Jan 2014

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Roman spear ?         Reply with quote

Hi
I bought this piece from local antique store.
Any idea from which time come from?

Thanks for any replay

Regards



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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 12:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What material is it made from? It looks like cast bronze??

If it is cast bronze, be aware that the Chinese have been making these for centuries, and are still making them now, therefore it may be considerably more recent than it appears....

The provenance and the cost may give some hint to its origin.

Julian
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Henrik Zoltan Toth




Location: Hungary
Joined: 18 Feb 2007

Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you can find such bronze weapons on the net if you search for "Luristan Spearhead".

So I think, it comes from the Iran.
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I Krumpl




Location: New York
Joined: 19 Jan 2014

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys
I think is bronze.

Here is one more smaller spear from the same guy.
Is it from same era ?



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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, it's not Roman, nor anything Classical nor later. IF it's actually an antique, it could be middle eastern, and is probably looted. If it resembles anything Chinese, it's more likely fake. It *could* be a flagpole finial or a spike from a fence.

Matthew
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I Krumpl




Location: New York
Joined: 19 Jan 2014

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi
Why you think to be a fake?
Can you be more specific?
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,272

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2014 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, China does not permit antiquities to be exported, so there is a booming market in fake Chinese antiques, including bronze swords and spears, etc. I don't know Chinese weaponry, though!

I also don't know middle eastern bronze weaponry that well, either, but I do know that "Luristan" basically means "looted from the middle east". Though there are a lot of fake middle eastern items available as well.

This particular item, hard to say! The patina does look more convincing, actually. The reddish spearhead also strikes me as authentic, because of the decoration--it doesn't look "fakey" to me. Though like I said, these items are not in my general area of knowledge!

There's probably someone here who can identify your spearhead better than I can. Or at least tell you what it's *supposed* to be.

Matthew
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 454

PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are a few people here I can think of who might be best able to answer your questions, why not let them know about this thread and see what they say?

Dan Howard - http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/profile.php?mod...amp;u=2637

Jeroen Zuiderwijk - http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/profile.php?mod...amp;u=2922

There are probably other forum members who are very knowledgeable about bronze age arms and armor but these names come to mind first.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Mon 07 Apr, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It doesn't look like an antique to me. It is either a souvineer made for the tourist industry or a deliberate fake.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Tue 08 Apr, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Doesn't look like anything Roman to me and I'd be going for an eastern origin. But how East and when is very tricky.

All the above answers are sound. It might be a real historical object but without provenance its a bit of shaped metal. With some money thrown at it for metallurgical research you might get some answers, until then its a curio you bought in an 'antique' store. I say it in parenthesis as a reputable dealer should have been able to give you more answers when selling you something. Its in their best interest to do so as a provenance will up the value. So there might well be a reason why they haven't.

If you bought it because it looks nice, well like others here, yes its a nice object. If you bought it as a representation of a specific culture/artefact etc well its saying nothing to me and if you brought it to turn a profit it might creep up in time but again, without provenance or detailed research it will only be worth your initial price or what someone is willing to part with it.

Sadly the trade in looted or displaced artefacts is huge and disappointing and its fuelling the huge market in forgeries too.
[url]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ancient-Bronze-Dagger...6148[/url]

cant say if its real or not for sure, but doesn't look like it to me. The sellers info leads me to thinking I'll spend my money elsewhere. For that kind of dough I can spend an afternoon having a go at making one myself which would be far more pleasing to me, others will differ.

Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 20 Apr, 2014 6:12 am    Post subject: Roman spear?         Reply with quote

To date there were no bronze spears made in ancient Rome. Back then most spears were made of iron and to me it's awkward to have a legionary armed with a bronze spear. Eek!
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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