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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: A Source for Pommels         Reply with quote

A gift certificate to American Fencer's Supply compelled me to track down some information that will be of interest to the DIY community here, and is not available anywhere else online.

AFS doesn't show many of it's "Armoury" products online. They were kind enough to scan a page from their old print catalog and send me that and a list of discontinued items.The pommels I've marked in red are not available. Everything else is available, and I've tracked down photos so you can see what some of those look like in the flesh.

Match those part numbers to prices here: http://www.amfence.com/html/parts_armoury.html and order by phone.

I've just ordered three "Claymore" pommels at $35 each. I'm thinking that is likely to be the most useful. I'll post photos here ASAP.



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

American Fencers was about 2 blocks away from my loft. They moved and I have, but I'll always remember browsing their Armory section and seeing their various parts and pieces alongside completed swords of their own and from Oscar Kolombotavich. Good times..
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice one Sean. I knew this website but never brought myself to order (put off by the color of the carpet on the sword shots maybe...Happy)...so looking forward to your pictures!

Actually the 116 looks pretty decent too...looks like brass but is supposed to be steel.



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Julien M




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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Spent hours browsing for hilt parts... still hoping to find a goldmine such as this one of these days Happy


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Jeffrey Faulk




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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seeing that these are fencing-style swords, wouldn't these pommels tend to be on the small side, perhaps unsuitable for anything over small-sword size? I can't see anything as far as sizes go on the website...

Of course that's what you're finding out, I suppose Happy
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Mark T




PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Sean!

I'd been putting off trying to order from them, as their site is so clunky, and they didn't have pictures of the pommels!

Does anyone have images of the following they list?:

Bastard 112C/1
Medieval 115C/1
Medieval 117C/1
Double ring swept hilt 151C/1


Julien M wrote:
Spent hours browsing for hilt parts... still hoping to find a goldmine such as this one of these days Happy


Wow! Where is that? And do you *just happen* to have a link to it in a larger size? So much to look at there ...

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Julien M




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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's from the Vorarlberg Museum. I just hope the collection was not put together by some eccentric with a weird sword pommel fetish, butchering swords to pile these up! There are some wonderful pieces there.

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Faulk wrote:
Seeing that these are fencing-style swords, wouldn't these pommels tend to be on the small side, perhaps unsuitable for anything over small-sword size? I can't see anything as far as sizes go on the website...

Of course that's what you're finding out, I suppose Happy


They aren't fencing-styled swords. They are from the company's division called "The Armory" which was their attempt to theatrical swords based on history. They were all done in the 80s/90s so they aren't exactly up to the well-researched standards of today... but they are not fencing equipment.

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Dean F. Marino




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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This could be a goldmine... THANK YOU for the data. I may very well email these folks, and explain how they are tossing money out the door - this stuff needs to be LIVE on the net, with a "BUY ME" button next to it Happy.

DarkWOOD armory has several pommels - all described as "rapier", but it's the WEIGHT and PLACEMENT that counts. I've built up several Hanwai Bastards with these - all ending up at about 4" POB.

(Edit) - sent 'em a note. They need to SHOW this stuff, and give people a genuine way to BUY it.

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 25 Mar, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i'm not sure there's much to work with in their guards, but the pommel prices are comparable to Darkwood, and possibly of more useful size and form. I'm hoping the " claymore " will be hefty.

That pommel collection! Here's your master's exam--pick a pommel at random and draw the rest of the sword it's from.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Mark T




PostPosted: Wed 26 Mar, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julian: Thank you! I think I've learned more from that photo than any other single image. Amazing.

Sean Flynt wrote:
Here's your master's exam--pick a pommel at random and draw the rest of the sword it's from.


Indeed ... I've already been doing so in my mind's eye.

One thing that really struck me was how many pommels match almost exactly other examples we know of on complete swords, while some forms and designs I don't think I've ever seen.

Both of these aspects make complete sense, of course, but how fantastic to have such an array in one image, and the contrast between the known and familiar, and what was previously unknown, juxtaposed like this.

This is one of those myArmoury days that really makes my heart sing!

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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Wed 26 Mar, 2014 4:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chevalier still lists parts in their theatrical section.
http://www.chevalierdauvergne.com/

Cheers

GC
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Wed 26 Mar, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glen A Cleeton wrote:
Chevalier still lists parts in their theatrical section.


Yep, have you ordered any? Any picts to show? I've asked for more details on their guard and got a laconic two line that did not address my question 3 weeks later Happy Their range is not terribly interesting either, though the tea cosy is quiet nice.

The main potential source is your regular manufacturers too, but it doesn't always work out.
Fulvio Del Tin will ship pommels and guards, but at 40 euros a piece (pommel or guard) + 25 euros shipping, I've always bailed out at the last minute...thinking I should do it myself.



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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's the scoop on the AF "claymore" pommels, showing scale as much as I'm able. The sword setup shown here is the HT fullered bastard sword. The dagger is an approximation of how the pommel would be mounted on the Atlanta Cutlery large dagger blade, which has a 12" blade and 7" tang (this one is shortened at both ends, but you get the idea). The old-style A&A Henry V pommel (hollow) is shown for purposes of size comparison. The AF pommel is only slightly smaller in diameter, but thinner through the body.

My overall impression is that this pommel is a good deal if the size is right for your project. It would look a bit small on a blade much wider than than the HT bastard, but for a narrower project, I think it's fine. Some will not like the extent of protrusion on the faces. Those are easily ground down, and I'll almost certainly do that for my projects. As you can see, there's good consistency from piece to piece.

The threaded hole extends about 2/3 through the piece, which makes drilling an easy task.

Finish is not bad at all but you'll be spending some time with files and paper to clean up some of the rough spots from turning.

I think this pommel is fine for narrow single hand and possibly even some narrow bastard or longsword projects. It would be beautiful on a robust dagger.



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Sean, very useful.

I thought this pommel looked smallish from the claymore pictures from their site. For further comparison, 2 inches wide is bang on the length of a yeoman pommel ( up to dawn, the shorter side of the oval).

That's a bit small for most of my projects, yet likely too large and heavy for a dagger - otherwise they look very good for the price.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 7:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, I would say that it's somewhere in between a dagger and a sword. Great for one of those neat little riding swords, perhaps.

I don't know enough about sword-hilt daggers to know how much size variety there is in surviving examples. Thinking of the magnificent dagger Peter Johnsson made for Nathan Robinson ( http://www.myArmoury.com/dagg_pj_dagger.html ,) there must have been some big, beautiful daggers of this type.

I'm thinking about getting another of those $15 AC dagger blades and trying a dagger project.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Dean F. Marino




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean - great photos regarding the physical size of these pommels. Of the ones you have ... any idea of the apx weight? They are probably quite different, as one has quite a bit more metal to it. Something in the 320 gram range will balance an HT Bastard pretty nicely, about 4 1/2" POB with an overall 9" grip Happy.

Also - there is some threading... any thoughts on the size? 6x1 mm ?

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dean F. Marino wrote:
Sean - great photos regarding the physical size of these pommels. Of the ones you have ... any idea of the apx weight? They are probably quite different, as one has quite a bit more metal to it. Something in the 320 gram range will balance an HT Bastard pretty nicely, about 4 1/2" POB with an overall 9" grip Happy.

Also - there is some threading... any thoughts on the size? 6x1 mm ?


I don't have a scale, unfortunately. The (old) catalog copy says the Claymore is 8 oz. and 6mm thread. Seems a bit heavier to me, but what do I know? I think if you're talking about the full length of the bastard tang, then you'd get a nice balance. For single hand I might want to shorten the blade from the forte.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Dean F. Marino




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Apr, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Flynt wrote:
Dean F. Marino wrote:
Sean - great photos regarding the physical size of these pommels. Of the ones you have ... any idea of the apx weight? They are probably quite different, as one has quite a bit more metal to it. Something in the 320 gram range will balance an HT Bastard pretty nicely, about 4 1/2" POB with an overall 9" grip Happy.

Also - there is some threading... any thoughts on the size? 6x1 mm ?


I don't have a scale, unfortunately. The (old) catalog copy says the Claymore is 8 oz. and 6mm thread. Seems a bit heavier to me, but what do I know? I think if you're talking about the full length of the bastard tang, then you'd get a nice balance. For single hand I might want to shorten the blade from the forte.


Ohhhhhh - 8Oz = 226 grams Sad. You are VERY right - that's a little on the light side Sad. The Darkwood acorns that I've used in the past run about 261g / 8.7oz - and their Scent stoppers run 300g/10 oz.

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgot to follow up on this thread. Here's what I did with the AFS pommel. http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=282185


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-Sean

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