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Steven Janus




Location: Florida, USA
Joined: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Anyone here like videos of armored combat?         Reply with quote

https://vimeo.com/channels/640028/page:2

I'm just posting here the link to my vimeo page for my local Adrian empire chapter. I have a lot of videos from the South Florida Renaissance Faire of us doing yield combat demos. I thought some of you might be interested, I'm even fighting in some of them Big Grin. Thought you might enjoy BOTN style action from my local group. We're History of Chivalry at the Fair, and we even made it this year to the entertainment roster. The Fare's website is www.ren-fest.com for FLARF, the Florida Ren Fair. Click the vimeo channel link above for the videos, thanks again all.

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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Fri 07 Mar, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Anyone here like videos of armoured combat?         Reply with quote

I just watched the 1st video, Steven. The knight in red first fights his 2 opponents using a pair of swords then fights them with just 1 sword. At the end of the video he wrestles his blue opponent to the ground before telling him to yield, thus ending the duel.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 5:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

not exactly Battle of Nations
David L Smith
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
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Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject: armoured combat         Reply with quote

Not exactly historical either... Confused
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A4-TIvKCNw

you can find more here
http://www.youtube.com/user/battleofthenations?feature=watch

David L Smith
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Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I suppose the "Battle of Nations" may capture some of the intensity of armored combat on foot, but it doesn't strike me as being a particularly good representative of the martial discipline which would have been a core component of the knight or man-at-arms skillset. As per armored combat videos, I really liked these from Germany (their website: http://www.hammaborg.de/en/) which showcase some of the techniques from Gladatoria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy78IaIo0mE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4X1FNhYx3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5fXf90Gto

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ocY4JMT4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhNplvWL7P0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpwn0xWro2Q

...It's all about leverage. Happy
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Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sun 09 Mar, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

...Just to add... the quantity of falchions, great and small in the HMB videos, is really very surprising. The variety of the falchion blades is also very interesting.
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Steven Janus




Location: Florida, USA
Joined: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed 12 Mar, 2014 11:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah guys guys I understand that our group is not the most historical. It's more un-choreographed stage combat than anything but I thought you'd still appreciate it. Due to the rules of our group, a lot of historical techniques aren't allowed and thus becomes a giant hack and slash fest. No thrusting without thrusting cap, this is not a points fight so thrust to the arm pits, cuts behind the legs, or other typically unarmored places don't count as instant kills. The objective is to more or less whack the other guy and out last him until they give up or get them on the ground and force yield into submission. Yes it is generally less intense than BOTN but we still have polearms, axes, and maces, but the rules on those weapons are more strict than BOTN.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar, 2014 3:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Beeching wrote:
...Just to add... the quantity of falchions, great and small in the HMB videos, is really very surprising. The variety of the falchion blades is also very interesting.


They are not proper falchions, but 18th century Italian beidana, an agricultural tool.
People are actively trying to remove them form the competitions, as they are not historically related with the kit that people are using and they are kind of cheesy =).
There is just one example of that kind of weapon used into the XIVth century, but it's used by a militia and not by any means by a knight.

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Michael Beeching





Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Thu 13 Mar, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, you know, I love all manner of feasible weaponry, so I took no offense to the falchions (and the wonderful variety thereof!) in the HMB videos.

...I think if there were one thing that was very odd to me, it would be the lack of maces and hammers and the over-abundance of swords in the videos. There are things that a sidearm should and should not do, and callously smacking plate armor is generally one of the things a sword should not do.

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Theo Squires





Joined: 23 Jul 2012

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
There are things that a sidearm should and should not do, and callously smacking plate armor is generally one of the things a sword should not do.


The lack of maces and hammers is obviously for safety. BotN use blunt swords, axes etc to avoid excessive risk. However, because combatants are armoured, the effect of these weapons is purely concussive. Swords are not intended for this, as you mention, which makes them less effective, and thus less deadly. If combatants were allowed to use hammers and maces, it wouldn't matter that they are blunt - people would get concussions, broken bones, fractured skulls, brain damage and die, armoured or not.

The rules of the combat determine how it is fought. Ineffective weaponry is used contrary to its design - swords bashing armour - because the goal is to get the enemy to fall over, not to kill them, and because effective anti-armour weaponry is banned. Period appropriate armoured fencing techniques for longswords are generally ignored because most people have (ahistoric) shields. Running into people and kicking them is generally more viable, effective and safe tactic for getting them to fall over than disarming, grappling and then shanking them with a rondel dagger.

There isn't any way to fully simulate real fight-to-the-death combat without excessive loss of life, so instead there are several 'systems' (HEMA, BotN etc.) which capture one or two elements at the cost of other elements. Because people generally don't want to die, I don't see us ever getting beyond safety trumps realism limitation.
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Steven Janus




Location: Florida, USA
Joined: 12 Mar 2008

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat 15 Mar, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Theo Squires wrote:
Quote:
There are things that a sidearm should and should not do, and callously smacking plate armor is generally one of the things a sword should not do.


The lack of maces and hammers is obviously for safety. BotN use blunt swords, axes etc to avoid excessive risk. However, because combatants are armoured, the effect of these weapons is purely concussive. Swords are not intended for this, as you mention, which makes them less effective, and thus less deadly. If combatants were allowed to use hammers and maces, it wouldn't matter that they are blunt - people would get concussions, broken bones, fractured skulls, brain damage and die, armoured or not.

The rules of the combat determine how it is fought. Ineffective weaponry is used contrary to its design - swords bashing armour - because the goal is to get the enemy to fall over, not to kill them, and because effective anti-armour weaponry is banned. Period appropriate armoured fencing techniques for longswords are generally ignored because most people have (ahistoric) shields. Running into people and kicking them is generally more viable, effective and safe tactic for getting them to fall over than disarming, grappling and then shanking them with a rondel dagger.

There isn't any way to fully simulate real fight-to-the-death combat without excessive loss of life, so instead there are several 'systems' (HEMA, BotN etc.) which capture one or two elements at the cost of other elements. Because people generally don't want to die, I don't see us ever getting beyond safety trumps realism limitation.


I agree with what you said, though they do allow axes (even two handed) and maces in my group. There is a video on my vimeo page, see first post, where there is a sword and shield versus a two handed mace. It's allowed in my group but like always, excessive use of force is not allowed. I do agree highly with what you wrote above.

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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: harness combat         Reply with quote

Below I have a link to my YouTube playlist. Here iv'e saved videos displaying harnessfechten (harness fighting).

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUZlSZ6...re=mh_lolz

These two show me doing harnessfechten with my group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p58Tk5okRQ&am...zOHaf_Uo8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPxldE8lVak&am...zOHaf_Uo8Q

-Reece


Last edited by Reece Nelson on Sun 16 Mar, 2014 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 484

PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: harness combat         Reply with quote

I have seen your vids before, I love that you are doing crossfit and such in armour.

Reece Nelson wrote:
Below I have a like to my YouTube playlist. Here iv'e saved videos displaying harnessfechten (harness fighting).

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUZlSZ6...re=mh_lolz

These two show me doing harnessfechten with my group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p58Tk5okRQ&am...zOHaf_Uo8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPxldE8lVak&am...zOHaf_Uo8Q

-Reece

David L Smith
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 612

PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Theo Squires]There isn't any way to fully simulate real fight-to-the-death combat without excessive loss of life, so instead there are several 'systems' (HEMA, BotN etc.) which capture one or two elements at the cost of other elements. Because people generally don't want to die, I don't see us ever getting beyond safety trumps realism limitation.[/quote]

We've been fighting a outrance with rebated steel weapons for more than a decade. Full on grappling, thrusts and throws are in. The way no one dies is you take the fight to point where someone would die and then don't finish it. Frankly, it takes a lot of respect for each other to agree to this level of risk. Most of the time, we just do tournament fighting with counted blows. Dagger fights are horrific.

The BotN stuff is relatively safe because of the rules and high equipment standards. When teams of unknown fighters meet with thrusting and grappling, someone would likely be killed, I have no doubt. They can ramp up the violence by pulling those options.

Kel Rekuta
AEMMA Toronto
www.aemma.org
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