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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2003 10:15 am    Post subject: Falchions         Reply with quote

I'm doing late 15th century living history and was thinking of getting a falchion for my footsoldier persona.
I remember a review by Bjorn H. at some point in the past that indicated that the Del Tin falchion was a good bet "sword wise", but that one is listed by Albion as 13th century. Does anybody know if falchions changed much over that time period?

Anyone have other suggestions or experience with other production choices?

Finally, I'm assuming that a falchion did not go in a scabbard? Do you hang it from your belt by a thong or ...

Gordon
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2003 12:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, Gordon! I wrote the myArmoury.com review of the MRL/Windlass Falchion, which is early 14th so not what you'd want. However, I ran across much information in my research for the article. You'll find falchions depicted in artwork of the 15th c., especially, if I remember correctly, in depictions of the martyrdom of St. Barbara (see one such, ca. 1510, below or do an internet search). In Prague this summer I saw a falchion of this period depicted as being carried in a scabbard that was split along the back edge from the throat of the scabbard to approximately eight-tenths its total length. It looked to me like the scabbard must have a wooden core.The opening in the back of the scabbard might have been so narrow that it kept pressure on the weapon to prevent it from shifting while the last bit of scabbard/chape secured the distal end. That's pure conjecture on my part. As you can see in my review ( http://www.myArmoury.com/review_mrl_falc.html ), the MRL scabbard is just a regular scabbard wide enough at the throat to accomodate the widest part of the blade. There's no reason this couldn't have been done with relatively narrow bladed weapons. I suppose the more dramatically shaped blades would have needed a suspension system like the one described above. I think you'd be looking for a storta or a short, wide blade with clipped point, simple recurved quillons and/or knucklbow and a grip more like what you'd find on a 17th or 18th c. hanger rather than a medieval-style grip and pommel. I'm thinking of a simpler version of A&A's Medici Falchion, which is dated to mid 16th c. (see Nathan's review at http://www.myArmoury.com/swor_aa_falc.html?3 ). If you go to the site with the larger image of the one below ( http://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/cjackson/cranach1/p-cran1-12.htm ) you'll get a detailed view of the scabbard construction. However, I can't tell if it's open at the back. Doesn't appear to be, but I'm not sure how that blade would fit otherwise. If you're into DIY, you could get the inexpensive MRL Badelaire (around $150) and alter it a bit to fit into the period of your interest. This badelaire is reputedly a good weapon, and the blade form was in use long after the Conyers and Thorpe types had faded. Depictions of John Smith's late 16th / early 17th c. falchion aren't too far from this form, so the MRL badelaire might not even need any modification to fit into your period. Finally, here's a falchion of ca. 1530, with basic stats and a very clear view of the scabbard's interior construction: http://www.catsdiablopage.com/falchion.htm


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Mike Fletcher




Location: Auburn, CA USA
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2003 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Gordon,

Here is a nifty 14th century French falshion from Manning Imperial
http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...group_id=1



Regards,

Mike



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Mike Fletcher




Location: Auburn, CA USA
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2003 4:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also, Lutel makes a 14th century falchion which would probably work for 15th century too (and it comes with a sheath, hanger and belt).
http://www.lutel.cz



Regards,

Mike
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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Oct, 2003 5:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Fletcher wrote:
Also, Lutel makes a 14th century falchion which would probably work for 15th century too (and it comes with a sheath, hanger and belt).
http://www.lutel.cz


That falchion handles real lousy, at least in the blunted version. Blade-heavy and sluggish, which shouldn't be the case with a short sword.
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Oct, 2003 6:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
That Manning falchion looks nice.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2003 5:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Björn Hellqvist wrote:
That [Lutel] falchion handles real lousy, at least in the blunted version. Blade-heavy and sluggish, which shouldn't be the case with a short sword.

That's really too bad... I had hoped to get one of these at some point.. still looking for a quality soldier's falchion...

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Mike Fletcher




Location: Auburn, CA USA
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2003 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Björn Hellqvist wrote:

That falchion handles real lousy, at least in the blunted version. Blade-heavy and sluggish, which shouldn't be the case with a short sword.

Thanks for the feedback on the Lutel Bjorn! Sorry to hear it's a clunker Sad

Regards,

Mike
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Eugene George




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2003 1:19 pm    Post subject: Aww..         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Björn Hellqvist wrote:
That [Lutel] falchion handles real lousy, at least in the blunted version. Blade-heavy and sluggish, which shouldn't be the case with a short sword.

That's really too bad... I had hoped to get one of these at some point.. still looking for a quality soldier's falchion...


Me too. Has anyone handled a sharpened version?

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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Oct, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Björn Hellqvist wrote:
That [Lutel] falchion handles real lousy, at least in the blunted version. Blade-heavy and sluggish, which shouldn't be the case with a short sword.

That's really too bad... I had hoped to get one of these at some point.. still looking for a quality soldier's falchion...


Yeah, it's too bad, as I've liked most swords from Lutel. I fear the sharpened version isn't much better. When compared with the (discontinued) Del Tin 5131 falchion (a truly nice falchion!), it was obvious that it needs a lot of distal taper.
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Joachim Nilsson





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PostPosted: Sun 12 Oct, 2003 10:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Speaking of falchions... Does anyone know of any manufacturer or company that makes a good, well balanced and (historically) accurate messer or gross messer? I've already read the review of Cold Steel's grossmesser and was more or less put off from the (rather) poor handling characteristics... Worried I've looked around quite a bit, but haven't found any nice examples.
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Lodovico Zago




Location: Conegliano, Italy
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 5:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joachim Nilsson wrote:
Speaking of falchions... Does anyone know of any manufacturer or company that makes a good, well balanced and (historically) accurate messer or gross messer? I've already read the review of Cold Steel's grossmesser and was more or less put off from the (rather) poor handling characteristics... Worried I've looked around quite a bit, but haven't found any nice examples.


I bought a Kriegmesser from Marek and it's quite good http://www.armorymarek.com/.
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Martin Wallgren




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the information!

Alas Joachim will not be able to use it. He passed away in July 2008.

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Nathan F




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

albion are making messers why not try them? as for falchions i know a British guy who makes excellent ones i have only handled one and it was nice a bit slow for my liking but he has a good reputation tell me what you think. he also does messers. there was also a Czech manufacturer who makes good messers but i lost the link.
http://heronarmoury.co.uk/falchionallery.htm

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