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Martin Moser





Joined: 13 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Feb, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Scabbard for a Langes Messer         Reply with quote

Hello :-)

I'm starting to make a scabbard for a Langes Messer, planning on a carved and stamped decoration and two by-knives. All the depictions I have found so far show little detail, be it decoration or how the scabbard was attached to the belt. Are there any surviving 16th cent.originals of such scabbards perhaps? So far I'm not aware of any, obviously (I have looked at a number of paintings of course). I have also found some input and advice here on this forum in other discussions about Langes Messer, Bauernwehr and the like.
Going from those I am thinking about an "invisible" suspension on the backside of the scabbard. I was considering having the by-knives one below the other (because of the small width of the scabbard), but that doesn't seem right, so will try and fit them at the top and next to each other as was the standard.

Here a few pics showing where I am at the moment:


(Langes Messer in the wooden core of the scabbard (next to my Katzbalger, for proportions)


(some test variants for the scabbards decoration, not final yet)


(first trial stamped lettering)
Thanks in advance for any kind of advice, opinion, pictures, or other references that might help me on!

Martin
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Radovan Geist




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Feb, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Martin,

Your project is looking good - Id love to see the result. Im afraid I cant help much, but:
Scabbards for (langes) messer have been discussed in multiple threads on this forum (like this one: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...;start=22) but there are also others). But as far as I remember the scabards theyve shown were only repros or period art. However, they do have some details on suspension methods (like knotted suspension, very similar to katzbalger).
I have seen only few surviving originals, mostly from luxury high-end weapons. See for example this hunting grosse messer of Emperor Maximilian in Vienna:
http://sword-site.com/thread/462/hunting-grosse-messer-maximilian and some pictures might be also somewhere here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98015679@N04/sets/72157634787266045/
Im not sure how much would that be representative for a "normal" messer - its a hunting weapon, a highly ornate one and was made at the end of 15th cent. But the way by-knives were aligned on this particular scabbard is very interesting.
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Martin Moser





Joined: 13 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Feb, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Radovan! Thank you for your reply and the links, more food for thought and I need to get to Vienna, amazing what they have. I also gleamed a little detail in the form of the chape of the Katzbalger on one of those pictures that gave me an idea how to overhaul mine in the future at some point.
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Martin Moser





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PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all,

finally got around to work a bit more on the scabbard, doing the leather cover and starting with the decoration:












Cheers,
Martin

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Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks great! I really like the lettering! What will the color be when it's finished? Have you decided on a suspension?
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Martin Moser





Joined: 13 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 5:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Tim,

the final coloring will be black. I'm going to go for a "invisible" suspension on the back of the scabbard, as seen on a number of paintings. Yesterday I got around to work some more on the scabbard, finishing the decoration and the chape.
The decoration of course is pure speculation, although the elements are mostly taken from existing originals of leatherwork (scabbards, covers, cases ...)

So, this is where I am at the moment:





Cheers,
Martin

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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is looking absolutely awesome! ............McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Ben Coomer




Location: Colorado
Joined: 06 Sep 2011

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PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Outta curiosity, where's the langes messer from?

Awesome leather work, by the way.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's looking great so far!
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Apr, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin, the scabbard is looking absolutely fantastic so far. Very late Gothic/early Renaissance. It looks like something that would be right at home in an elder Bruegel painting.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Jussi Ekholm




Location: Tampere, Finland
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, that looks great, can't wait to see it finished.
Jussi Ekholm
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Martin Moser





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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Ben and all,

thanks for your kind words!

Ben Coomer wrote:
Outta curiosity, where's the langes messer from?


This one is from http://www.armorymarek.com/de/langes-messer--falchion

Cheers,
Martin

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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is STUNNING leatherwork... and the chape is interesting - did you make this? Never seen one in Green Happy (or is that a protective coating?).

Core looks solid - curious as to whether or not you opted to line it? I don't tend to line mine, but have heard good things about this technique from others.

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Ben Coomer




Location: Colorado
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Martin. A langes Messer is on my list. After an arming sword, a two hander, and a spear, but on the list...
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Martin Moser





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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dean F. Marino wrote:
Never seen one in Green Happy (or is that a protective coating?).


Nor did I :-) No, it's just in the picture that there is a greenish tint. The color is polished brass actually. I made it from .5 mm sheet brass, and a 10 mm rod for the finial.

Quote:
Core looks solid - curious as to whether or not you opted to line it?
Yes, it's a wooden core, unlined except for about 2 cm of thin goat leather at the mouth for a bit of extra friction so that it doesn't slide out too easily.
Cheers,
Martin

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Radovan Geist




Location: Slovakia
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Apr, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thats a really nice piece! your leather-work has a professional quality.
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Martin Moser





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PostPosted: Fri 11 Apr, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Slowly, slowly getting close to finishing the scabbard. Today I dyed the leather black. What is left to do is to do the suspension and permanently attach the chape (once my son has decided whether he prefers to have it brass-colored or tinned).

Here is the new look:





Cheers,
Martin

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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Apr, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for showing such nice work!
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Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 11 Apr, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Absolutely stunning. Bravo!
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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