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Ricardo S.





Joined: 23 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: What are these?         Reply with quote

Hi. Does anyone knows what are these pins on this ballock dagger?


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art 016_G_Mclain_dagger duvida.jpg


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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Attachments for the metal plate between the blade and handle?
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Ricardo S.





Joined: 23 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mart Shearer wrote:
Attachments for the metal plate between the blade and handle?


Indeed, that is my guess, but i couldn't find any photos to make sure...

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Leo Todeschini
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Location: Oxford, UK
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ricardo S wrote
Quote:
Hi. Does anyone knows what are these pins on this ballock dagger?


In fact that is a Dudgeon dagger and was a late 16th/early to mid 17th development of the bollock dagger favoured in Northern England and particularly Southern Scotland.

The pins were used from the 15thC onward, though rare, and became common during the early to mid 16thC. They were used to hold the guard plate in place. When I make these daggers I use the pins to keep the parts aligned as I work and assemble them rather than to hold the knife together as such.

I hope that helps

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The decorative rivet heads on the bulbous ends of the ballocks are an attractive feature on a lot of ballock and dudgeon daggers.

You can't see it in this angle, but if you were to look under the curved plate at the end of the grip, you'd likely be able to see the mushroomed ends of the pins.

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Ricardo S.





Joined: 23 Mar 2004

Posts: 85

PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice. Thank you very very much for your help guys. That's quite a bit of good information. Thank's a lot!!!
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Ricardo S.





Joined: 23 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
The decorative rivet heads on the bulbous ends of the ballocks are an attractive feature on a lot of ballock and dudgeon daggers.

You can't see it in this angle, but if you were to look under the curved plate at the end of the grip, you'd likely be able to see the mushroomed ends of the pins.


Nice, thank you very much Sir. By the way, do you know how did they take measures so that pins are aligned?

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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

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PostPosted: Thu 27 Feb, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ricardo S. wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
The decorative rivet heads on the bulbous ends of the ballocks are an attractive feature on a lot of ballock and dudgeon daggers.

You can't see it in this angle, but if you were to look under the curved plate at the end of the grip, you'd likely be able to see the mushroomed ends of the pins.


Nice, thank you very much Sir. By the way, do you know how did they take measures so that pins are aligned?


Simply drill through both the plate and the wood. The rivet holes would probably have been punched in the metal plate before putting it on the grip, so they would have just held it on there and then used a 'birdcage' awl or similar tool to bore the hole for the rivet pins.
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Ricardo S.





Joined: 23 Mar 2004

Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri 28 Feb, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Faulk wrote:
Ricardo S. wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
The decorative rivet heads on the bulbous ends of the ballocks are an attractive feature on a lot of ballock and dudgeon daggers.

You can't see it in this angle, but if you were to look under the curved plate at the end of the grip, you'd likely be able to see the mushroomed ends of the pins.


Nice, thank you very much Sir. By the way, do you know how did they take measures so that pins are aligned?


Simply drill through both the plate and the wood. The rivet holes would probably have been punched in the metal plate before putting it on the grip, so they would have just held it on there and then used a 'birdcage' awl or similar tool to bore the hole for the rivet pins.


I see. That makes sense and is a good idea punch the pins in the plate before. Thank you a lot!

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