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Peter Anderson




Location: Holland, USA
Joined: 22 Mar 2013

Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon 30 Dec, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Seeking information on early (especially Mycenaean) belts         Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm doing some personal illustrations, just for fun, of Greek mythological figures in researched Mycenaean garb. At the moment, I'm hung up on a little detail, and having trouble finding an answer. Maybe there isn't one, given the vagueness of sources like the Warrior Vase and such.
In any case, what sort of belts would an ancient Mycenaean warrior wear? Buckles as we know them do not appear until later times, from what I understand, and while I found a common Bronze Age British belt style on Matthew Amt's bronze age page, I can't find anything for a more Mediterranean locale.
For that matter, I'm not sure I've ever figured out belts for Ancient Greece. In fact... I have a deficit of knowledge on belt technology besides loop and tongue buckles (and various modern contraptions like D-rings).

I'm not sure if this is something that's been studied a lot. It's a little hard to search for, because the key word belt tends to get pulled up in a lot of topics (sword belts, general clothing, armour, machinery belts...) without specifying details like this.

Hopefully, though, someone has got it figured out. In any case I'd love any information I can get.

Short version: what does a Mycenaean belt look like?

Pete
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,195

PostPosted: Mon 30 Dec, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Source:

Kriegswesen.
Hans Günter Buchholz; Joseph Wiesner
Series: Archaeologia Homerica ;; Bd. 1, Kapitel E;
1977-
German Book v. <1-2 > : ill. ; 25 cm.
Göttingen : Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, ; ISBN: 3525254040 (v. 1)



 Attachment: 24.94 KB
War_belt.jpg


Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,306

PostPosted: Tue 31 Dec, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yup, that's pretty much the only thing I've seen! Artwork generally shows an unbroken band or pair of lines, at best, no indication of a clasp or anything. Even Geometric and early Archaic figurines aren't much help (and they are much closer to Mycenaean than many people want to admit). Yet Homer's descriptions are much more involved. That's why I went for a rather plain leather belt with a hidden flat hook and inconspicuous slots. Sort of the organic version of that spiffy bronze clasp.

I hate to say, "Good question! Find out and let us know!" But that's what it kinda comes down to...

Matthew
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Peter Anderson




Location: Holland, USA
Joined: 22 Mar 2013

Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was hoping you guys would show up!

Dan, that is fantastic. Do you know that book's source? Is there an artefact recovered that the sketch is based on?
I'm not sure I get how it works, either. I can infer that it's a hook-in-hole clasp, but does the holed plate go between the Y (which must have a hook on the bottom stem) and the belt base, or does the entire hook mechanism just go over the belt end, plate and all? At this scale, I can't really differentiate some of the lines in the drawing.

Once the library here at school opens up I should hopefully be able to request a copy of that book for myself, but if you can shed light on anything in the interim that would be phenomenal.

Anyway, thank you both for the help! A plain belt (like on your excellent recreations, Matthew) might be the best bet, I suppose. I'd say a tied cloth or cord probably wouldn't strain the imagination either?

Cheers,
Pete
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,195

PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I get the impression that at least some of the belts in the Iliad are fastened at the back. It might explain why we don't see any sort of clasp in illustrations.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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