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Ksenia Ch.





Joined: 24 Dec 2013

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 24 Dec, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: need a charge for the rifle "Weigandt in Leipzig"         Reply with quote

Hi!
i need your help: what can i buy to use for reloading the antique double barrel percussion European shotgun by Weigandt in Leipzig, 16 gauge, 31” barrels?
I will appreciate every piece of advise or information!!
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Ralph Grinly





Joined: 19 Jan 2011

Posts: 322

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Virtually any outlet that sells muzzle loading supplies would be able to furnish caps, powder and shot, as well as any accessories needed. BUT..and it's a big BUT, any antique shotgun , esp if it has a Damascus ( so called) barrel MUST be carefully inspected by a *qualified * gunsmith to check that it's still safe to be used.
If you're really interested in taking up muzzle loading shot gunning..you'd be far safer in using one of the modern made percussion shotguns available. Usually cheaper, and you don't rick damage to a possible valuable antigue, and they are MUCH safer all round.
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Ksenia Ch.





Joined: 24 Dec 2013

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you! The thing is that such a fancy rifle should act ! It can't just be hung onto the wall ))
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 12:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ralph has given you the best advice it is possible to give....have it checked out by a professional gunsmith before even putting on a percussion cap. Black powder shotgunning is great fun, but requires a not inconsiderable investment in equipment, for developing the right load for your gun, for cleaning it etc. It's not something you can just pick up casually, particularly when you add the 'unknown' element of using an antique gun that has not been given a modern proof. I would suggest either contacting someone who you already know regularly uses such guns at, say, your local club, or making extensive use of a specialised forum such as the traditional muzzleloading forum.

Take as much advice as you can, it may save you from destroying a nice antique or even your own extremities. Always err on the side of caution when shooting antique guns....

It's a messy, often frustrating, pastime that requires patience in spadefuls, but I find black powder shooting hugely enjoyable and fun.

Play safely,

Julian
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Ksenia Ch.





Joined: 24 Dec 2013

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 4:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Julian!
I actually can find NO information about this rifle, so every piece of advise is of great importance for me!!
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Mike Janis




Location: Atlanta GA
Joined: 26 Feb 2007

Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can get all the supplies that you will need at Dixie Gun works. http://dixiegunworks.com/

While you are shopping and having you gun inspected, go ahead and buy a modern 16 gauge, black powder shotgun. Shoot it until it becomes second nature. Use your experience/knowledge with the modern BP gun to work up a load for your antique gun. Start with a “proof load” using a long cord to let you pull the trigger while standing behind a stout wall or tree. Accept that your expensive antique shotgun may become a worthless antique hand grenade when you pull the trigger. Oh, NEVER EVER use modern “smokeless” powder in it. Always use real Black Powder (my recommendation) or a modern equivalent such as Pyrodex.

You can get good information on Black Powder weapons at: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/16_.html

MikeJ
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 6 books

Posts: 1,217

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ksenia

You do not say where you are located. If you are in Europe then there are likely to be both gunsmiths and black powder shooting clubs where you can go for advice. Shooting an antique firearm of any kind is always a risk due to the construction techniques used in their manufacture, as well as the possibility that age may have weakened the metal in the barrels and action. The advice to have a gunsmith examine it is very good. You should also consider the potential value of the gun, unfired, versus being used as a shooter. If it is a rare and highly decorated gun, firing it now could lessen or destroy its value.

Loading and firing a muzzle loading firearm is an entirely different situation from doing so with a modern gun and must be approached only after you have gotten all the information needed to do so safely. Not doing so could lead to an accident which ruins your gun as well as causing you injury.

Good luck with this. Be sure to post some photos of your shotgun when you have time.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Daniel Wallace




Location: Pennsylvania USA
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Posts: 580

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've seen a few Damascus barrels - they are unique, I have heard of people shooting them with a lower charge with out any problem, however this type of barrel is no longer considered something for regular use - if it can shoot, it's more valuable than if it does not.

manufactures make inserts for these types of barrels, due to the skepticism of their construction. done correctly, a forge wield process makes one metal better than any modern joining process known for metals. problems come up if there are minor flaws in the welds which could cause a potential for failure.

Ralph's advice I think is key. take it too a gun smith and have them look at it, best thing you can do for it. they can tell you what you have, how to care for it, how to shoot it, even make loads for it.
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Ksenia Ch.





Joined: 24 Dec 2013

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for the given information!
You're absolutely right that this gun shouldn't be used as a usual hunting device. But as long as it's owned, the owner is sure to make a couple of shots out of it !! That's why i need to know what must be put in it to perform well and without destroying the mechanism.
In my city (Donetsk, Ukraine) I haven't come across the gunsmith who worked with such guns, unfortunatelly.
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Ralph Grinly





Joined: 19 Jan 2011

Posts: 322

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Again..I can't emphasise this more strongly..no matter how good the gun may HAVE been when new..shooting one TODAY without having it inspected and checked by a QUALIFIED gunsmith is simply playing Russian Roulette Sad
A *surprising* number of this type of percussion shotgun were kept loaded, except for a cap on the nipple, ready for use. In the hundred and fifty odd years since it was last used. it's STILL possible that the gun was left loaded and that old powder can STILL explode.
That's just ONE possible scenario
. If gun wasn't cleaned properly since last use..powder residue could have had over a hundred years to corrode away the inside of the barrels..leaving them tissue-paper thin..looking perfect from the OUTSIDE..but a possible deathrap if fired now.
OLD guns are potential death traps to the unwary !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ralph Grinly





Joined: 19 Jan 2011

Posts: 322

PostPosted: Thu 26 Dec, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I forgot to mention earlier. Where-ever you get your black powder, and percussion caps from should be able to point you towards a qualified gunsmith in the area. Unless the rules in your area are particularly lax..you'll *have* to get these supplies in person. Explosives..and these are both classed as such cannot be shipped to individuals via the Post or through Courier companies.
Under *NO*, repeat NO circumstances , be tempted to use modern day smokeless powder , as used in todays cartridge firearms, in place of the old fashioned Black Powder !!!!! Even modern-made black powder weapons cannot withstand the much higher pressures generated by today's smokeless powders. Anything that's a hundred years or more old, even if it's in perfect, "as New" condition will not survive a charge of smokeless powder. Sad
It's for your own safety, and that of others, that almost all replies to your question have said to get the gun checked out by a qualified gunsmith. No one else is qualified to judge how safe the weapon is.!
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Ksenia Ch.





Joined: 24 Dec 2013

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot, I've got your advise. Trying to find a good gunsmith in my region. Hope, there is somebody Happy
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri 27 Dec, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Russian Roulette


Ukranian Roulette surely... ;-)

Can't over emphasise what everyone else has said really. If it has a failure on firing its more likely to be at the end nearest your face so take good advice and make sure you use powder appropriate to its age. I have seen an antique firearm tried out like this and it nearly cost someone an eye so play safe. And have fun too!

Griff
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Robert Frey




Location: Wausau, WI
Joined: 19 Nov 2013

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ksenia Ch. wrote:
Thank you! The thing is that such a fancy rifle should act ! It can't just be hung onto the wall ))


I realize your use of the word "rifle" may just be a language issue, but it makes me ask if there is rifling on the inside of the barrels?
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