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Bryan Heff




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PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Complex hilt Bastard swords with disk/wheel style pommels         Reply with quote

I have recently become pretty interested in complex hilt bastard swords. In my digging around for images I was struck by the fact that pretty much all of the ones I have come across have scent stopper style or some variant along those lines.

Does anybody have an example of a complex hilt long/bastard sword that has a disk type pommel?
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 27 Nov, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't think of any.
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Matthew P. Adams




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PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any thoughts as to why that might be?

As I understand it, scent stoppers were used to keep the weight as far back from the cross as practical, and they were used for two handers and longer longswords. Moving the weight back meant that less weight could be used to achieve the correct balance and dynamics.

Was there use in later long swords a fashion thing? Did disks fall out of fashion at some point? Were disks still used on cross hilted swords?

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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Fri 29 Nov, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are there any wheel pommeled rapiers? This isn't really my period, so I am not particularly familiar with alot of examples, but from what I am familiar with it seems that complex hilted Bastard swords followed the trends going on in other complex hilted shorter swords. It seems that wheel pommels might have not appealed to the aesthetic sense of the period.
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Bryan Heff




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As I think about this more, I don't know exactly what makes a hilt complex. Is it anything that is added to the cross. Finger guard? One side ring? 2 side rings?

I currently have a custom sword in the works that will have a fairly simple "complex" hilt in my opinion - straight cross with 2 side rings, similar to this.



Again, I have only ever seen non-disk pommels matched with this style of hilt.
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Wed 08 Jan, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think I have seen rapiers with disc pommel, but not longswords. Only addition to cross on disc pommeled swords I have seen is a finger ring (Alexandria type XIX for example).
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Julien M




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One example below. Eltz Castle Germany.

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Bryan Heff




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Julian! That is interesting. I have to think it occurred but certainly does not appear to have been common. The sword at the top is really nice too, btw. I like that one a lot.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 7:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julien M wrote:
One example below. Eltz Castle Germany.



That looks like a single-hander more than a bastard sword, so it would fall outside of the OP's question.

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Julien M




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
That looks like a single-hander more than a bastard sword, so it would fall outside of the OP's question.


That's as close as I could get. The blade is definitely of bastard sword size. The guard is quiet typical also. The grip length you are right looks more like a one handler, but could such a blade being wielded without the second hand gripping the pommel? It seem the full grip+pommel is long enough to allow this, just barely.

Regarding the relevancy to the initial query a late bastard with a disk pommel has to take us around bizarre and uncommon pieces I guess.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jan, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julien M wrote:
Chad Arnow wrote:
That looks like a single-hander more than a bastard sword, so it would fall outside of the OP's question.


That's as close as I could get. The blade is definitely of bastard sword size. The guard is quiet typical also. The grip length you are right looks more like a one handler, but could such a blade being wielded without the second hand gripping the pommel? It seem the full grip+pommel is long enough to allow this, just barely.

Regarding the relevancy to the initial query a late bastard with a disk pommel has to take us around bizarre and uncommon pieces I guess.


Looks like a single-hander to me. Let's not forget that blade length does not distinguish these two, as many single-handers (rapiers, etc.) have 44" + blades and are balanced to be quite wieldable in the one hand despite being at times 4+ pounds in weight.

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