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Sebastian Szukalski





Joined: 10 Jun 2012

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Help me choose a dagger to accompany my first sword         Reply with quote

I recently purchased my first sword - a longsword from Lutel, and it shall be arriving in the next few months. However, I have decided I would like to purchase a dagger to suit it as well. I am no expert on daggers, and am thus quite overwhelmed.
The sword is a XVIIIa (flattened diamond) blade, and thus it seems fitting that a dagger would follow this cross section. my budget is $500 including shipping.
Link to an image of the sword:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/525870_325927510794838_826994896_n.jpg

It is described as "Central Europe 1490. Oakeshott type XVIIIa, single fuller, Flattened diamond"
The design is vaguely Germanic to my eye, and thus a suitably Germanic dagger might suit, however I bear no love for the landknecht style, with its wide blades. Ballock's and rondel's are more to my eye.
Anyway as this is my first post I hope someone will help out a newcomer.
My thanks in advance.



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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your question is too wide open, I think. It's like saying, "Help me pick out a car."

For the time period of the late 15th Century, you have a staggering array of dagger types and styles from which to choose. Ballocks, rondels and cruciform (quillon), etc., daggers were all in use at that time. Even left-handed daggers, I think.

You might think about narrowing your interest, which would help you to select a dagger. You might try doing some more research on your sword and see if that leads you anywhere. Is your sword based on a real example? Where is the original sword from? Who was the person who used it? If you can't find anything on that particular sword, research that Oakeshott type. Some sword types are regional.

By narrowing your interest, I mean focusing on a particular culture, region, use, class of persona and appearance. For example, do you want something that looks similar to your sword? Then you'll probably want a quillon dagger.

In the Features section of this forum you will find several articles on various dagger types. Review those articles and see if anything piques your interest.

With a budget of $500 you can also consider getting a custom blade made if you don't find anything else for sale that grabs you.


Last edited by Harry Marinakis on Mon 30 Sep, 2013 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sebastian Szukalski





Joined: 10 Jun 2012

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Precisely the reason I came here. Perhaps someone can direct me to something akin to the oakeshott typologies, but for daggers. A cruciform dagger would suit stylistically, however there ate others which suit historically (assuming it is a Germanic sword, from around 1500). I have difficulty choosing between stylistically similar, and historically plausible.
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah! We all wish there was an Oakeshott-type organization daggers, but, alas, there isn't.

You can get a blade that is both stylistically similar and historically plausible - it just takes some research to find something.

Logan Thompson's book Daggers and Bayonets is a pretty good reference.

Again, narrow your interest and sometimes then the answer becomes obvious.

Is your sword just something for a collection? Then just get a dagger from the same time period that looks good to you.

Are you building a persona who would use this sword? Then research that persona in detail. Where did that person live? What class of citizen was that? What did that person do?

I'd start with Google and just start searching, both websites and images. Search on "15th Century dagger" and see what you get. Look through the recommended book list here at myArmoury and buy a few books that cover your time period of interest. Read a little about the history of that era.

Once you start looking, you'll find an explosion of other things to look at. I keep a Word document to help me keep track of what links I've seen, what links I want to see, and what links I want to keep for future reference.

EDIT: If you want to make an educated choice, you have understand how and why daggers developed the way they did; you have understand the armor in use at the time and how daggers were meant to defeat that armor; and you have to understand who would use what type of dagger.
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Henrik Granlid




Location: Sweden
Joined: 17 Apr 2012

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd say go for a long dagger with a wrap in the same colour. To me, disc-pommels with cruciform guards are out, sice if you want a miniature version, it should keep the pommel, if you can find a scent-stopper, you should be right at home.

However, to me, that blade just screams "Long rondel dagger with kinda small discs", wrap it in a half wrap yourself and it'll be just great.

The key, I think, is matching the long and slender vibe, to which I think a rondel might be best, if the rondel-discs aren't too large.
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arms and Armor makes many good daggers - Look HERE - Though they may be charging more than you want to pay.

Also, look at Del Tin daggers - DT2155 - DT2156 - DT2154
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Sebastian Szukalski





Joined: 10 Jun 2012

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger, you inadvertently led me to a dagger I was searching for - the A&A Tudor dagger. I've seen a custom piece based on it. Now if only I could find a way to import it.
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sebastian Szuakslki wrote:
Now if only I could find a way to import it.


Where do you live? There are a many armourers and blade makers around the world who could make something like that for you. Here are some in Europe:

http://www.gullinbursti.cz/

http://www.kp-art.fi/jt/index_eng.html

http://www.ollinsworddesign.com/

http://owenbush.co.uk/

http://www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk/Pattern_welding.htm

http://www.robert-moc.sk/pages/sk/start.php

http://www.templ.net/english/

http://www.sword.cz/eindex.htm

http://www.armorymarek.com/
Take a look at Marek's scent stopper daggers....

if you get a custom blade be sure to specify if you want a sharp or blunt edge.



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Dean F. Marino




Location: Midland MI USA
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 229

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A comment - not necessarily from a historic perspective...

I have many daggers. Over time, I discovered something: many of them were just too damn BIG.

Oh, I have no doubt that they would slay someone - but I really could not use a dagger with a 14 inch blade to do anything else. And I wanted daggers that could function for more than killing everything in my path Happy.

At least in MY case - I settled on blades between 9 and 10 inches long, as being both decent fighting tools, as well as decent TOOL tools. 14 inch blade daggers are indeed sexy... but try cutting something other than a human with one Happy.

In edhil, hai edhil. In edain, hai edain.
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional



Location: Oxford, UK
Joined: 12 Nov 2006

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Posts: 1,589

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would look at the very Germanic rondel daggers with all steel discs and grips.

They are current with that date, and sexy as hell and geographically appropriate. They are also more military than most bollock daggers. However the downside is that they usually have triangular blades, so they are no good for anything other than posing or stabbing.


Tod

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Sebastian Szukalski





Joined: 10 Jun 2012

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 30 Sep, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tod, if I can get customs permission for importing a dagger to australia, I think I might be buying from you soon. Your wares seem very nice.
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