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F. Carl Holz




Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Sep, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: looking for info on painted helmets/armor         Reply with quote

Hey guys,

I am looking for articles and discussions on painted armor and helmets, in particular what time periods it happened in. I know I've seen some of them on here before but I'm having trouble finding them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

31. And there are some whom everyone should consider to be wise...
-Le Livre de Chevalerie, Geffroi Charny-
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Marik C.S.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you are looking for this thread here:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18604

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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep, 2013 8:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The practice of painting helmets certainly existed before the late 14th and early 15th centuries. We have mentions of helms of color in the mid 12th century, though how this color was achieved is never explicitly stated.
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...p;t=153347

There are numerous depictions in manuscripts of helms with heraldic charges or patterns which are most likely painted.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?tags=...helm"

There is documentary evidence from the 14th century for helms being painted, such as the Rothwell account for the English Wardrobe:

lxij galeas quarum vj pro torniamento, iij cum barberis pro hastiludo, j depicta de veteribus armis Anglie et lij pro guerra
(62 helmets of which 6 for tournament, 3 with "beards" for jousting, 1 painted with the old arms of England, and 52 for war)

And there's the surviving 14th century Kornburg helm, which was re-painted with its gold cross, but has evidence of a previous paint job. We discussed gilt helms as an option to painting in this thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=28726

There is documentary evidence for covering bascinets with leather, so we can never be certain that a colored depiction is proof of paint, but it seems the likely candidate when heraldic patterns or badges appear.

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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F. Carl Holz




Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Sep, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks!

I've seen several references to covered or painted bascinets, but no one ever has any pictures and generally don't give a specific reference. Anyone know anything about that? This all started because I was wondering about painting/dressing up a bascinet.

31. And there are some whom everyone should consider to be wise...
-Le Livre de Chevalerie, Geffroi Charny-
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Sep, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cited by Charles ffoulkes in The Armourer & His Craft
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?...y=armourer
Quote:
Regulations made by the Armourers of London.

15 Edward II. A.D. 1322. Letter-Book E. fol. cxxxiii


Also, seeing that as well lord as man have found theirs to be old bacinets, battered and vamped-up, but recently covered by persons who know nothing of the trade; such bacinets being then put away in some secret place, and carried into the country, away from the City, to sell; and that in the City of such men no cognizance can be taken, whether the same be good or bad; a thing from which great peril might ensue to the King and to his people, and disgraceful scandal to the armourers aforesaid, and to all the City; it is ordained and assented to, that no smith, or other man who makes the irons for bacinets, shall from henceforth himself cause any bacinet to be covered for sale; but he is to sell the same out of his hands entirely, and not fitted up, in manner as used to be done heretofore; and the bacinets so sold are to remain so uncompleted, until they have been viewed by the four persons who shall have been sworn thereto, or by two of them, as to whether they are proper to be fitted up or not.



Randall Storey, Technology and Military Policy in Medieval England, c.1250-1350
Quote:
An appraisal made in 1324 valued three unremarkable basinets at 30s, an average of
10s each. (70) In the same year, however, 44 basinets were purchased by royal clerks for 16d each and
covered in white leather for another 10d each. (71)


(71) PRO, London, E 101/165/1, Expenses of Adam de Lymbergh in providing springalds and arms in Aquitaine.



Thom Richardson, The medieval inventories of the Tower armouries 13201410
Quote:
The only plate defences listed in the inventory of 1324 at the Tower were
forty-three bacinets covered in white leather, purchased for 4 15s. 3d. (155)

(155) xliii bacinettis de albo corio coopertis', TNA, E 101/17/6.


Bodley MS 264 from 1344 has a number of examples of red or rose-colored bascinets alongside the iron-gray ones.



 Attachment: 125.14 KB
MS Bodl. 264, fo054v-red bas.jpg


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MS Bodl. 264, fo78r-red bas.jpg


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