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Mirrin Ross




Location: Edinburgh
Joined: 17 Sep 2013

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue 17 Sep, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: visored helmets in the early 14th century         Reply with quote

Hello, I am currently in the process of righting regulations for a 14th century re-enactment group based in Scotland around the wars of independence, An issue has arose about weather or not to use visored helmets, we have plenty of pictorial evidence(from over 8 different manuscripts) for there use put cannot find any surviving ones and none of the other 14thC groups we have dealt with seem to use them,

does anyone here know if they were used / have any advice or evidence on the matter for us?

Mirrin the Mighty
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Henrik Granlid




Location: Sweden
Joined: 17 Apr 2012

Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue 17 Sep, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Holkham bible from the late 1320's or early 1330's does display visored bascinettes or possibly sugarloaves when reffering to the battle of Bannockburn.


The battle itself took place 1314 but the 10-20 year later depiction could well have "upgraded" the battlefield to a more modern standard.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Tue 17 Sep, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you have not seen this site you should.... it is indeed awesome!

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/

One from c.1300
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4219/8092/

There are loads of visored helmet.

RPM
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Kevin Legg
Industry Professional



Location: High Wycombe
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 17 Sep, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about this one in the Musee de L'Armee in Paris
http://www.therionarms.com/reenact/therionarms_c1405_original.jpg
Looks like the manuscript to me
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep, 2013 1:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It does look like the ms illustration but there is a lot of debate about its authenticity. The visor may well be a later addition to 'complete' the skull.
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Kevin Legg
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Location: High Wycombe
Joined: 05 Sep 2013

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mark,
you are right there are views that this is a Victorian "adjustment" I have recently asked the museum for their records on this helmet but as yet I have only had the "we will look into your request" standard reply. I will post the results of my request when or if it comes Happy
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Jeffrey Hildebrandt
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Location: Canada
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Sep, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would have to agree with the caption beneath the image - the helmet in question looks like something from the 15th C. Take a look at the helmet that got knocked off Goliath's kastenbrust armour. I am not sure of the date on the painting, but I would guess 1430-1440:



-Hildebrandt

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Mirrin Ross




Location: Edinburgh
Joined: 17 Sep 2013

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 23 Sep, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

cheers guys
Mirrin the Mighty
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